KEITH RICHARD: THE PUSHER BEHIND THE STONES

"I've got some tapes of the end of the last U.S. tour which are very good but donft cut a patch to whats happening"

At five oclock in the morning, Keith Richard sits sipping Jack Daniels in his hotel room 50 miles west of Glasgow on Scotlands coast. In a room next door, Keiths six-year-old son Marlon is sleeping soundly. Beside Keith is a small cassette recorder which plays throughout the interview a tape of that nights Stones show along with various reggae cuts and a tape of Keith playing with a group of Jamaican Rastafarian musicians. As the interview progressed, I noticed that Keith spoke in much the same way that he plays the piano, delivering his words with a strong, hard emphasis.

CREEM: Ron Wood seems to ha\/e made the band more human . . .

KEITH: Same as Brian. The right kind of chemistry. More right than Brian. Mick Taylor is basically a cold fish. I like him, hes a great guitar player but basically hes the type of guitar player that should be in a band with only one guitar player. Woodys made for two guitars but he just hasnt had the chance to do it till now. Woodys strength, as is mine, is to play with another guitar player. None of that virtuoso clap trap^ Now its starting to come out.

CREEM: But the guitar replacement didnt really matter much on Black and Blue?

KEITH: No, but if the truth be known how many Rolling Stones albums are there with only one guitar player? Brian didnt play much on record once he stalled to decline. Its no hassle for me to make Rolling Stone? records without another guitar player. I know what part should be played' but not who should play it. Till Woody came. Now its perfect.

Theres a few things weve written since Woodys been in the band that have been knocked together at rehearsals thats very promising stuff. Weye got a third writer in the band now. Woody can write too. Mick and I never wanted to do it all. Its just been forced on us cause no one el?e in the band was particularly a good writer.

I hope Black and Blue is the first step in Mach 111 and not just another extra special and good Rolling Stones album. Its hard to tell cause it takes people so long to get into the album. The only bad review of Black and Blue had Exile held up as a classic and three years ago they couldnt stand it.

CREEM: You seem more prominent on Black and Blue.

KEITH: Me? Thats to do with having to be in control of the band. With guitar players coming and going, I had'to_stop them from being jams and just put my foot down. Thats probably what pushed me to not do what everyone else was doing; Same as Ollie Brown has probably pushed Charlie harder, feeding Charlie ideas all the time. Charlie playing more solidly gives me more room. I can forget a bit of the really basic shit. Now I know if I try something completely different it wont all fall to pieces anymore.

Charlie and Woody are improving which makes it possible for everyone else to improve. Ive got some tapes at the end of the last U.S. tour which are very good bdt dont cut a patch to whats happened now. Its gone beyond vyhat we did in America.

CREEM: You seem to be enjoying feeding the national British press outrageous stories like "Keith To Wed Onstage In London," things like that.

KEITH: Theyve got no sense of humor. Theyre all so short of copy. I expected that to be blown up. I thought Id .feed them a line and see what theyd do with it. Awkward English reporters. They need a good angle. Feed people one angle; then they spend the rest of the year demolishing that. Theyre not interested in music. They might be put on crime next week. Theres no-such thing as bad publicity anyways. If they put your name and picture in, OK, great. Thanks. -

Sometimes youve got to be careful what you say. When Micks been in the office too much and away from playin he tends to see it too much like product. He shouldnt get into the business end. Mick shouldnt take any points for himself from Bowie or Zeppelin. That business aspect disappears when hes onstage. Its only ithe period when theres nothing else to do that he gets into the business end.

^CREEM: Did you read that amazing thing Ian Anderson said about the Stones and taxes? [Ian Anderson slagged the Stones and other British rock stars for leaving England for "tax" reasons. —Ed.]

KEITH: He sounded more like some provincial tax accountant. Who wants that freaky acid head flute player teaching you about tax anyways?

CREEM: Attitudes towards the Stones are strange anyways . . .

KEITH: You have to handle them the best way you can. Theyre not constant towards me or Woody either. Its like a compass needle. People suddenly take 90 degree turns against you. Attitudes towards Mick . . . they come in a lion and go out a lamb. They see the myth, the hero, the idol.

CREEM: But they cant see past him onstage.

KEITH: Sometimes they dont want to. And half the game is not letting people past that anyway. Youve got to have all your balls in one court and be a very different kind of person. Jaggers got that instinct. Generally, to save time and trouble, you tend to give them what they want to know.

CREEM: You seem to thrive on the road more than Mick . . .

KEITH: In a way, yeah. Hell talk like the road isnt important but he knows how important it is. Hes just more reluctant to admit it than I am. But there airtt a band in the world that can survive without going on the road. Maybe they,can survive.in financial terms but eventually its gonna fuck up the studio. A band has to play in front of people at least as muph as we do. We should play more. Not necessarily more time but more regularly. You rehearse for a month, get the tour going, crank it up and just as youre hitting top gear, the last gig comes and drops for. nine months.

CREEM: Jt must be a luxury for you to tohr two years in a row without another two year layoff.

KEITH: Thank God there wasnt a two-year layoff. I couldnt survive another two year layoff.

CREEM: Then touring helps the Stones survive?

KEITH: It keeps everything good. One thing feeds anpther. If you deny one part you cut off a whole load of things to another part. Its like an eight cylinder engine working on only four cylinders. If everything doesnt pop at once, forget it. Mick knows that same as I know it. Any musician knows that. Even those cats who stay in the studio for six years, finally go on the road and cant do it.

CREEM: Some people seem to be rethinking their attitude towards Goats Head Soup.

KEITH: Yeah, theres some very good things on that album. Its just the wrong emphasis was on certain things. That was the period when Exile On Main Street was still a great idea but wed only just split from Ireland. Wed only been away three months when we cut the fucker.

"I dont mind Bill doing one album but i dont see the point of copping it a second time. You dont make the same mistakes twice•"

By the time of Goats Head Soup and Its Only Rock “n Roll, people had to contend with Exile for real and thats why I say that Mick Taylor wasnt particularly good for the group. He joined at a time when with any other band he wouldnt have been forced out of England, forced to live that kind of life that was alien to him. It was unnecessary for. him cause he hadnt earned any moneyi We were being forced out on back taxes anyways. He was really an odd man out. There was no Way he could feel part of the whole thing as much as the rest of us. Black and Blue was more of a band effort. Mick Taylor wasnt good for the St'ones. It was a Sterile period for us cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe its just me. It was a period we had to go through.

Also , Mick is such a lead guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones, that is, the idea that you dont walk into a guitar store and ask for a lead guitar or a rhythm guitar. You play a fuckin guitar. You are a guitar player. If you just want to fuck about with three strings at the top end, well, alright, but thats not what the Stones are about.

CREEM: What do you think of Black and Blue?

KEITH: I like it. I have no worries about it. Im just glad it came out when it did because its signing time baby, [he laughs] and we needed it. It just puts us in a really strong position as far as all that shit goes.

CREEM: Why dont you do "Melody" live?

KEITH: "Melody" was a bit tongue in cheek for me really. Its hard to play live and take it any further. All we could do is make a reasonable copy of the record onstage which Im not' particularly interested in doing.

, When groups start they have all their shit down before they record so the group is what they play onstage. When its time to make an album, youve got all this stuff youve been flayin onstage for a couple years. Bam, thats it, right? Two albums later you run out of material, right? Then everything you put down on tape is being played for the first time. People dont realize the difference between a groups first album and their fourth or fifth.

CREEM: Or their 13th . .

KEITH: Sure. What they dug about the first two or three albums is fine, but thats the stuff the band knew back to front. Thats what the original band was and did. Thats the problem with all those people relating to "Satisfaction" or whatever. They just want to^drag you back. Or rather, they want you to drag them back, which is even worse.

Every time we tour theres a few people we hqve to convince by hauling millions of people into an auditorium and saying Ya Hoo Pumph ... And they.all say "Well, they can still do it." Thats not really the point. What matters is the kids. Especially over the last few years theres been this whole bunch

•.. the problem with all those people relating to "Satisfaction"... They want to drag you back. Or rather, they want you to drag them back, which is even worse. ■■

of new ones creeping in that werent around in 73. In America, there were a whole lot of 13-14 year olds that were really into it. It doesnt matter that they dont know the last eight years of the band. So what? Because this isnt that band anyways. Its a little bit of the band but not all of it. Were another band now-

CREEM: The current line-up seems very flexible.

KEITH: We can do more with this particular band than any of the other Rolling Stones bands. Its never been a case of Bill Wyman not playing something because he cant. Its just been very natural fo^ the two of us being there. Sometimes Bill is late or he isnt able to make, a session cause after all, he is a Stone alone, [laughs snidely], I dont mind Bill doing one album but I dont see the point of copping it a second time. You dont make the same mistakes twice. You can print this cause I told him. Do the same thing again and people question your motives. Bill is a great bass player. With Charlie, hes a great rhythm section. But its tbe Mick Taylor syndrome. QK, youre a guitar player, but thats not enough. Then you also want to be a great songwriter. Suddenly its not enough to be a musician. Its.the case of someone who can do something really well insisting they can do a lot of other things well. And they cant. Theres no point in forcing it.

CREEM: IS that why you and Mick havent done anything* alone?

KEITH: Yeah, because we realize that whatever we did would be a compromise . Wed have to put ourselves in the position of saying "Wow, this song is TURN TO PAGE 76 really good. Ill have to keep it for my solo album and not give it to the Stones."

CONTINUED FROM PAGE 39.

CREEM: Every time the Stones release an album or do a tour, everyone is positive its the last time.

KEITH: Its hard. When bands have been around this/long they shojild be dead and buried. But were still here and you have to live with it. Live with us. To write something new about the Stones is gonna be difficult. Everybody knows the image. But the easiest thing to do is slag it off. These journalists come to Frankfurt, right? Insisted we smoke this fuckin shitty hash. One guy wants to talk politics. I said I didnt want to. He says "What are you frightened of?" I said, "Im not frightened. Im bored."

If theyre not trying to drag us back, theyre just looking for someone else to do it, pretending that theyrethe Rolling Stones. The thing is we still feel its getting better for us. Playin is still a turn on. All the hassles are still not enough when weighed against the turn on to call it quits. And theres not that many things that are still a reliable turn on. Even dope can get boring.