"I'm the Connie Francis of rock 'n' roll."

Elton John is a man with nothing to hide. Meeting him is instantaneous recognition that his image - puckish but professional, easygoing, tolerant, a gentleman with a flair for sartorial supernova -is simply a totally natural and organic outgrowth of his private self. He is in love with his work, and it is a very healthy relationship. We found him in his hotel suite, cherub in a soccer uniform, snapping his fingers and bouncing while listening, with a self-critical attentiveness that bordered on the ruthless, to his latest single. In spite of being caught between myriad hassles - a new test pressing to okay, a radio station to run to afterwards, a slight case of the flu - we found him polite, charming, unaffected, as smooth as the white German wine he gave us and not even as saccharine. - L.B.

Jaan: I remember your, first tour and how surprised I was when you came out in a jumpsuit. The image you had from Elton John was of a pensive young singer-songwriter.

Elton: That was the black album cover. It misled so many people, looked so moody. When I first started parading around I think people were a little taken aback and resentful.

JU: I think that's because a lot of the songs on that first album were really serious love songs and all of a sudden here was this Liberace guy kicking out a piano . . .

EJ: All the songs on EJ were classically morbid. Most of our songs are pretty morbid. Someone once wrote that there's only one happy song on the whole album, "Harmony."

JU: I read once that the contrast between your comical clothes and your serious songs is part of the reason for your success.

The World's Best Friend Comments On Ascendance, Athletics, And Alcoholism

by Jaan Uhelszki and Lester Bangs

EJ: I suppose so. I just don't know anymore. I mean when you look back at those costumes I used to wear - those weren't even costumes! They were Mr. Freedom jumpsuits. People thought they were outrageous. I think the reason we became successful is because we played more rock 'n'roll. A lot of people said, "I don't like rock W roll, you should just sit at the piano," but I think rock appeals to a much wider audience.

JtfcThe concept of rock 'n' roll used to be that parents weren't supposed to like it. Parents like you.

EJ: I know. Isn't that odd ... I don't mind as long as they buy the records. But it's true. I can see four or five rows when I'm on stage, and the cross section of people is staggering, it never ceases to amaze me. In the front row last night was a couple who must have been in their forties and I thought, "they must be friends of the promoters". . . then you get 13 year old girls and everybody. It's great. Though mothers seem to brood on me.

Lester: One problem you have in terms of image is you have a tough time right now building the mystique of someone who lurks, the phantom of rock or something like that. You've made yourself so accessible and pinned yourself as so positive ... Mr. Nice Guy. JU: Other stars of your stature like David Bowie want to create a mystique that you can't see beyond.

EJ: That's bullshit. I hate that. It's all bullshit. I mean, why build a mystique? LB: What happened at a certain point is that people decided that the way to become a star besides writing a song is to say "I'm a star!" And stardom became very brutal... the ego had much more to do with it than the music.

EJ: There have been classic examples of people with no musical talent being built up even before their first record. In England that happens a lot. King Crimson was a perfect example. When they first started in England they played a \ few gigs at clubs like the Marquee and the press on them was just unbelievable and the publicity just sort of fell out from their people, people who surrounded them. And by the time their first album came out there was an unbelievable amount of excitement.

"I was never any good at sports - I was fat."

LB: Well, don't you think things have changed? I mean Bowie or Todd Rundgren steps up and says "Well I'm a superstar," and two years later he's still not selling.that many records but he's still saying "Yes, I'm the biggest star in history."

j EJ: And what really annoys me is that people believe it. Especially in England, they're so gullible. You pick up the paper in England and you read who are the biggest stars in America and they say Yes, Bowie, Jethro Tull and they never even mention me. That's real bullshit. I can't believe that. You pick up the English papers and read "Steeleye Span Storm Across The States. " Really bullshit! But people believe what they I read. I do tend to laugh about it, it is a bit 11 of a joke.

o I hate all that sort of moodiness you £ mentioned before. There's no reason for me to be moody, it's not all that important, I mean who really gives a shit. So Bowie's inaccessible and he's got a mystique and he's got a great stage presence. But so do people like Marlene Dietrich, who've been around 60 years.

j LB: I think it's a very sick sort of personality cult.

EJ: I suppose so. I also know David wanted to be Judy Garland.

LB: It's almost on a Mel Lyman or a Manson level, I mean a Bowie or a Leon Russell. . . the people surrounding them are vicious, and they're supposed to be nice guys.

EJ: Oh yeah. I've always thought rock 'n' roll was people's music. It's always been a thing that everyone should enjoy, as far as I'm concerned, I don't see why they should bring moodiness into it. On stage you can create an image without all the hassles. Who needs it? I can walk into a room and be surrounded by just as many people as David Bowie. You meet John Lennon, he'll talk to you for 25 hours straight and he doesn't give a shit and he's been through the whole scene. Backwards, forwards. He still talks to you. Ringo does. Paul does. George doesn't. . .but I respect George for what he's doing, he's doing it because he really believes in what he's doing and he's not just some moody . . .

JU: He's not difficult, it's just an extension of that whole religious thing he's going through.

EJ: Right. I feel sorry for him in lots of ways and in fact like him. He might be being used. I'm very skeptical about religion. If something's that fanatical it can you for their ends.

LB: Another thing that you sort of step out of is that rock 'n' roll is so much associated with the burnout syndrome. You're supposed to do that, to live fast and die young. I mean Dylan looked beautiful in 1966 when he was on the edge of death; he looked better than he did the rest of his life. But the whole thing is such ah adolescent dream.

EJ: Well. . . I'm the Connie Francis of rock 'n' roll.

JU: Will you be doing orange juice commercials in ten years?

EJ: Like Anita Bryant (sings a bit of a jingle), no, no way. I've got very strict sensibilities like that. That's why people annoy me when they compare me to Vegas acts. I can't bear show biz.

These people come to my parties, not my idea, it's just a publicity thing. It's nice to meet them, a couple of them I really do like, Steve McQueen and Diana Ross and Cher. You shake hands with 70people. Barbra Streisand came into the dressing room when I was just wearing underpants and she went "OHHH!" I went, "Barbra, you must have seen it before."

JU: You know you make Rona Barrett's gossip magazine. Not many rock stars do.

EJ: She loves me! Well, I'm perfect fodder for her. I'm perfect fodder for everybody. If anyone's gonna say let's pick on somebody, let's pick on Elton. JU: But they can't pick on you.

LB: Not very good fodder for a scandal sheet. You seem to lead a pretty sedate life.

EJ: I'm not talking scandal. I'm talking about like in England with the money situation and everybody moving out. So everybody says... and I never said it in an interview, I mean, Rod says it in interviews... but the big headline will be "Elton Leaving England; Deserting a Sinking Ship. Well We Don't Need Him!" And if anyone's gonna be picked on it's always me. I take the can back from so many people.

LB: Do you ever find yourself in the syndrome of being on the road so much that the graph of your alcohol intake just goes up and up until you're just reeling and you lose control?

EJ: Yeah, that happened to us last year. We went to Australia and Japan and then we had a crisis . . . we'd been on the road for four and half years and we all looked like just unbelievable zombies, felt like death warmed up, and we were just at the point of breaking up. So we cancelled everything from there on. We had a big tour of England planned, a big tour of Europe, and cancelled both. And we just took time off. I went to a tennis ranch and I read in English papers that I was huge and they were right ... I'd put on about 45

pounds because I was drinking at least half a bottle of scotch each day. I just felt awful and I looked at myself-at 27 your hair's going, body's going, you're going.

(4 f was drinking Haifa bottle of scotch each day. I was just becoming an alcoholic. #9

Also I'm the director of a soccer team. People connected with soccer do drink a lot, and I was beginning to drink like ... I mean I was just becoming an alcoholic. It was just ridiculous, so I just had to say no. I just started drinking again. I don't drink spirits, just wine and... The worst thing is the next day. I got to the point where I was taking things to get me over getting up. After two weeks of getting up and feeling like that you just feel like, "Ahhh." So I thought that's it, it's gonna be health from now on.

JU: So how's your romance with sports? I've heard you call yourself a sports groupie?

EJ: Oh I am, I'm an absolute sports groupie. I played doubles with Jimmy Connors, that was great; every time I hit a winning shot he used to sit on the floor and laugh. I'm not a bad tennis player and when you play with someto play better anyhow.

JU: Weren't you in a tennis tournament with Bill Cosby?

EJ: You know they have World Team Tennis now. Well, Billy Jean's team is in Philadelphia and I might get involved with that next year. I came over on the SS France to the States and went straight down to Philadelphia cause I had arrangements to play with Cosby, in an exhibition game. Usually they get 3,000 people at the Spectrum. They had 9,000 that night. It's one thing to go out there and play rock 'n' roll but to play tennis like a schmuck is another. I lost the first two games . . . but I knew I could beat him.

JU: You beat Bill Cosby?

EJ: Yeah.

LB: Do you think on one level being a rock star is like being a frustrated sports star?

EJ:It's been said that there's a parallel between sports people and rock people because they come from the same background. No way. Sports people go through hell. You have to be far more dedicated.

It's not a question of physical ability, because if you've got it you've got it, like playing the guitar; it's a matter of concentration. If a tennis player loses his concentration for one minute it can blow the whole game. I actually think it's more of a mind thing than it is a skill.

I was never any good at sports and I remember one year at school everybody had houses and on Sports Day they would compete against one another, and because I was fat they used to put me into the shotput. And the first time they put me into the shotput, I went to it it and the ball spun off my chin and fell on my foot and broke my toe . . . that was so funny . . . But I was never any good at sports except tennis and soccer.

Tennis has exploded here. Someday soccer will just explode. But I love American sports too. I love the Monday night game; if I have a gig that night, I'm distraught. Hockey I love, and baseball.

I can't find any Americans who like baseball. I hate the fucking Oakland A's and they win it every year. I'm a Mets fan. I really wanted them to win last year.

JU: Mets used to be on the bottom. EJ: I always felt sorry for the team on the bottom. Texas'll do all right this year ... We were up in Montreal when they got back from Russia. We got into the airport at the same time.

JU: Montreal is a hockey town.

LB: Canada's a hockey town - what else have they got?

EJ: They've got Anne Murray.

„ LB: Do you like Anne Murray? s EJ: She's great . . . reminds me of « Dusty. I used to have pictures of Dusty stuck on my wall... about 400 of them. She was my idol. Dusty had a desperate desire to be needed.

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CONTINUED FROM PAGE 53

LB: We hear that you're the Santa Claus of rock. Like Elvis. Like giving John Reid cars.

EJ: Well, its' just that I like giving away presents. My whole philosophy is ... / could be dead tomorrow or something gruesome. I've met so many people who are so miserable with their success. They never have any fun, they stay in their houses. I've got enough money. Really I don't think I'll ever be able to spend all my money. I very rarely buy things. I buy paintings. I have a great art deco collection. I buy a lot of clothes. LB: Do you think there's an element of compulsiveness in the spending and the way you push yourself to be prolific?

EJ: I've got tremendous drive. What you said before, Lester, about spending money now because you can make more tomorrow - that's true to a certain extent. I believe that I'll be around for quite some time. But I'm quite willing to admit that if something happened I could be the world's biggest bomb. I quite like that, that uncertainty. If our record comes in number one in England, great; when our Hits album went straight to number one, beat Bowie's album, I was absolutely delighted. We don't sit down and write something to go to number one but I'm always on the phone saying how's it going . . . especially with Rocket, the label, it's just murder. I worry more about that than I do about me at the moment.

LB: Don't you think there's an element of the ephemeral intrinsic to rock, very few rock stars sustain over the years, they become hacks like Elvis or Jerry Lee or Chuck Berry.

EJ: I don't want to be like them at all, appearing at the big hotel in town in 15 years doing "Crocodile Rock" for 40 old ladies. I know the time will come when I have to say "enough is enough. " LB: You think you'll be able to pack it in?

EJ: Yeah, there's lots of other things I'm very interested in. I'm very interested in the supper club at this time.

JU: What about film?

EJ: "Pinball Wizard," you're gonna die when you see Tommy, Ken Russell made me pull more faces in that bloody movie than I'd done in my whole life. Pulling the worst faces of all time. I get beaten in the movie.

LB: About the ephemerality, don't you think there's a point at which they know they've peaked? I think Lennon's at that point now, but people can't throw in the towel. They can't admit they're not as good as they were, that they've passed their prime and it's a very pathetic syndrome.

EJ: I suppose so. I don't agree with you about Lennon. He's got himself out of those two or three years of chaos. He was surrounded by chaos, John. And / he's got himself out of that and is on the verge of doing some really good things.

But I know what you mean ... I love reading a review that says "Well, Elton John is finished." I must say there was a review in CREEM of Caribou, and it was the worst review (by Billy Altman, November, 1974 - Ed.) It was great. It made me laugh. I don't mind reviews like that because it was very comical. When the guy said that I pinched "Honky Cat" from Lee Michaels that really finished me off.

One magazine printed a letter to the editor from a Kim Sand in Montego Bay, Jamaica, I'm sure John Lennon wrote it, that says "I'm tired of seeing this tired old closet queen and he doesn't even move around on stage anymore. Elton John belongs in one." It was worse than that. But I love those. LB: After we had Wayne Robins review Yellow Brick Road and he said "he doesn't have sufficient heterosexual good looks blah blah blah," we got this deluge of letters, "the girls at Beaver College think he's sexy and peachy keen." They're absolutely serious.

JU: How do you feel about being a sex symbol?

EJ: I can't understand it. I've always said that rock stars are supposed to be skinny and wasted. I think (with me) with a female it's very much a mother image, "Oh, hey, can I cuddle you. " It's a very subtle thing. In England it isn't. I can't walk around the streets there for fear that I'll get clothes ripped off. They're not subtle at all in England, they just go crazy.

LB: You had a turnover of fans at a certain point in your career which I would place at the release of Madman Across the Water. That's the point where I think a lot of the old Elton John fans decided you were jiving, weren't a serious artist, that you were finished. That's the point I began to like you. You took on a whole new audience at the very point where your initial audience split.

EJ: Like when I say at a show, "This one's from Tumbleweed Connection," there's hardly a ripple. I know exactly what you mean and I think you're quite right. Adding a guitarist made a difference; we've been a band ever since. LB: Did you consciously burn your bridges behind you?

EJ: I'd made my records with session musicians. We had a band but weren't making records together; it was ludicrous. They were getting uptight and I could see their point, and after Madman Across the Water we began to use other musicians more. I thought, "I've gotta start using the people I play with all the time. I've gotta start writing some different types of songs. " That album was Elton John stuck on a bridge. Luckily we went across.

Someone once said to me that I make the funniest records. He said it as a compliment. I mean, "Grimsby?" Grimsby is a pretty atrocious town. Singing a song about it that just makes it sound wonderful.

LB: Do you intend to make your records funny?

EJ: Yeah ... all these people spend all this time creating masterpieces, hours and hours really into things that are just five .chords. I could never believe that they thought they were creating, that they took themselves so seriously . . . I'm serious about some of my songs. "Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me", is a serious pop song, but "Grimsby" -how can you be serious about Grimsby? That's the whole point of rock and roll.

LB: One last question. Perhaps you can clarify something I've been wondering about for a long time. Why is it, do you think, that there are all these acts like Slade, and Gary Glitter, the Sweet, probably Suzi Quatro, certainly Alvin Stardust - all those teeny tigers who are such a rage in Britain, and they all bomb in the States?

EJ: You have a more sophisticated audience over here. We have a better educational system, but your kids are much more advanced by and large. An English 14 year old boy who buys a Gary Glitter record is simply younger and more naive than a comparable American 14 year old who spends his money on, say, the Allman Brothers. You must remember that you have so many more media outlets over here, more radio stations and television channels and all the rest of it, so the poor dears are bombarded constantly; consequently they become a bit more callous, or at least less gullible. They grow up so fast I sometimes suspect they're older than I am.

LB: They're certainly more jaded than you seem to be.

EJ: Faugh. Pity, isn't it? %