A PRIVATE HOUR WITH JOHN LYDON’S PUBLIC IMAGE

A PRIVATE HOUR WITH JOHN LYDON’S PUBLIC IMAGE

FEATURES

by Toby Goldstein

A shame you can’t hear the belches with which John—but you can also call him Johnny Rotten—Lydon punctuates his conversation. Great air pockets of gusto they are, courtesy of lunch hour with St. Pauli Girl, and sent flying into the room with vigor. After each one John turns, favors his guest with that notorious glowing ember pop-eyed stare...and then broadly grins, He knows how to play this game, has had enough years of practice at it to have evolved into a grand master. And when both sides recognize that encounters between “artiste" and “press" are supposed to prompt at least a few sparks, John feels free id have fun.

It’s been 10 years since Lydon’s original band, the Sex Pistols, scored newspaper headlines every time they flashed the latest score. Since then, punk solidified from a cry of desperation into a mass movement, then to a lifestyle, ending up a fashion statement, now subject to nostalgic distortion. From the Pistols, John founded Public Image Ltd. an enti-ty of changing personnel, location and ideology which has Lydon as its constant focal point. With a musical core of hypnotic rhythms supported by Lydon’s challenging snarly vocals, PIL’s latest recording, Album, devotes itself to minimalist titles and a corresponding generic promotional campaign. The “Poster" hangs on a wall, Cassette and Album are in the shops, “Video" has actually been spotted on MTV, and Lydon relates his stripped-down life story in the publicity handout “Biography.”

In person, however, Lydon is a complex individual. He defies his punkish characterization as a surly bastard by laughing heartily and often. (If anything, he’s a clever bastard.) He knocks down expec* tations like bowling pins: taking a deep drag from an asthma inhaler, he sarcastically drawls, “Oh, no, it’s drugs, man," before asserting a serious anti drug stance. His interests are diverse, and he converses in depth. If there is one way to get in trouble with this man, it's by being unable to keep up with him.

Hair dyed a fascinating floral bouquet of pink and orange and piled in cork screws, Lydon wears a baggy yet elegant patterned suit of predominantly fuschia and purple tones designed by Londoner Steven King, with a remarkable yellow tapestry tie that has a little tassel at the tip. His home, these days, is wherever he drops his baggage and feels like settling for a while with Nora, his wife of 10 years. "I'm disgustingly faithful," John Lydon smiles, It gets harder and harder to call him rotten.

How do you feel about the post mortems for punk that have been ap pearing in the press?

I say "so what," and I'm also a bit angry that the British press are complete ly misrepresenting it. It's a shame that in less than 10 years they've managed to warp reality beyond all recognition. They make it all look so spitfire, very quick, rushed, and it wasn't. It was a dreadfully uncomfortable time for all of us; we were flat broke then. But then all these impor tant little details have been completely obliterated for a Fantasy Island production.

Passing it off as a media event.

Yes, without fully understanding the content, It's outrageous. I suppose they're doing that to tie it in with this awful Sigue Sigue Sputnik nonsense. (SSS is the latest specimen of outrageousness on the UK charts, touted to be this year's Frankie Goes To Hollywood, if you like.)

They really are bad and for my reputa tion to be insulted with that, trying to associate with me, I find bloody offensive. They're saying they're the new Sex Pistols and that's just not true. They have nothing to sing about, they have no real political stance or anything. It’s just dreadful, cheap versions of heavy metal fashions.

"You won't see me being like a Loverboy or a Mr Mister1 I find all that dreary and awful1"

What is your perspective on those times?

I would rather go as the unsung hero for the moment Uttti! my wonderful new book is released. Well, it looks like I'm going to have to (write one) at some point. It wouldn’t have been my choice, but I’m so damn sick of the lies that it needs some accurate reporting...and it would be very different from the rubbish you’ve been reading so far. It’s very difficult when so-called fans come up to you in the street and give you a load of guff because they’ve read it in a magazine: it can’t be a lie because it’s printed. Because that’s how naive the general public are about that kind of thing.

What is PIL today, and who are PIL?

My little gem, my artistic vehicle. It is a company I make music through and lease the end results to various record companies, and there have been very many of them. I know as well I’m fast running out of record labels, what a shame.

What do record companies do when you walk in the door; are they frightened of you?

Yes. Because they believe what they read. They expect me to be this vile anarchist who’s going to spit everywhere and rip up the chairs. And I’m sorry, it would be just too tedious. It's boring, too. It’s not interesting, that kind of behavior. If I don’t like someone I just say so. That’s as violent as I can be about it. I don’t need to make these ridiculous childish statements.

is there an unspoken “anymore” at the end of that?

NO. I have never wrecked offices. I wrecked many a studio because that’s the only way you can get these sods to j listen to you half the time. But I fast grew up in the studio and I thought, “Well, the only way to make a record is to do it yourself,’’ so I learned my art, If production is an art.

I like things to be a team effort with me at the helm. I steer the ship of fools. When there’s a storm I’m heading straight for it,* I do like risk. This is where me and record companies don’t see eye to eye. They’d like me to be very stable and continue with one particular sort of music but j I’m afraid that’s just too boring for me. And if they don’t like what I do next, well, then, that’s fine. I’m off to pastures now.

Dare I say that Album is commercial?

What does that mean? Instantly accessible to the majority, which I seriously doubt this is. I’ve had many hit singles over the years. It’s nothing new to me to be popular or non-popular, both at the same time usually,

I don’t make records for an audience. I make them firstly and foremost for myself—and then, if they’re liked, that’s really good. You have to stay truthful to yourself and the minute I wouldn’t be doing that would be the minute that I should be spat bn. That is what I’m all about, honestly. For as long as I can get away with it, I’m going to be at it. Wef| there’s too many other people in this business condescending in their attitudes to music and I’m not going to be one of them. You won’t see me being like a Loverboy or a Mr. Mister. I find all that just dreary and awful.

Tm not worth about mysei nymore. I don’t care if I’m ugly. It doeshmboth

Do you accept that those bands might believe in what they’re doing?

No, I don’t. I honestly don’t—-because it’s too bland, and too many people do it, also. It’s very hard for me to tell the difference between all of that kind of MOR stuff. It’s all so similar, it’s tragic. It’s probably necessary, because while they’re being so bland, I, of course, stand out like a diamond in a mud stack which is fine, there’s' a place for all of us.”*

You co-starred in a film called Corrupt a couple of years ago. Do you want to act again?

Yes; There are offers which obviously I cannot talk about.

It was fun to see you being Johnny Rotten in a different context.

I wasn’t being Johnny Rotten in that, not at all. That was an extremely spoiled individual. I’m not at all like that.

Spoiled is the image that came through the press.

I’m hardly spoiled. I had to work damn hard for the tiny little pittance I’ve earned in this world. Self-indulgent? I could do your interview for you; I could murder me! Seif-indulgency implies no end result and 1 do achieve and I do influence things to a very large extent. It’s a shame that the people who’ve imitated me have made more money than I do. But then again, people like secondhand castoffs, don’t they? The Banshees come to mind, that Public image guitar sound is now featured in Heart and the likes. It’s not nice to be misused.

Isn’t that inevitable?

Yes it is, and you can’t be too precious. Grin and bear it, that’s my mottoV

What kind of characters would you like to play? t

II wouldn’t mind doing romantic omedy.

f he leading man?

I ain’t gonna be the leading lady, that would be a laugh now. That would definitely be method acting gone too far. I like serious films, not too serious. I saw that Desperately Seeking Susan last night on telly.! really liked it. Madonna was very funny, she had bags of personality, and that works, that’s something you can’t be taught. You either have or don’t have, and that comes from self-assurance, not self-indulgence.

What did it take to make you so selfassured? I can’t imagine you were always that way.

When I was young, let’s say 12,1 was incredibly shy. I’d go bright red if I was even asked a question in school, and I’d had enough of that. It was getting me nowhere. So I started reading, and was influenced by what I was reading, and was enjoying that, and gradually, slowly but surely, came around to a better way of life. I’m not worried about myself anymore. I don’t care if I’m ugly. It doesn’t bother me; it’s the only face I’ve got and if you don’t like it* well, too bad, you don’t have to wear it, you don’t have to even look at it if you don’t want to. So I just get on with things.

You must have been happy when you made that decision.

It was damned difficult. It took me quite a few years to achieve perfection, and i’m still working on it. You know, you’re talking about a major personality change^ And I do see the human brain as being capable of that. You can achieve whatever you want if you put your mind to it, if you really want it.

People must have been surprised by the new John Lydon.

Yes, well, the school immediately threw me out.

What do you consider education, when you say “get an education”?

My kind of education would be through literature. Read, see that there’s many different points of view and work out the best one for yourself. And once you’ve got that, once you’ve sussed your common sense attitude to life, then you’ll find things will work for you much better. And you’ll know why certain things fail, but you won’t be too pissed off about it. It’s important to know yourself, particularly your bad side, and you don’t need an analyst for this, you just need some good books.

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So what music did influence you?

What influenced me mostly was the complete lack in white music. It was all black music that I was listening to and still am, really. White people tend to prats mostly, which is unfortunate, and I’m not going to join that club.

They can’t dance! How many times have you been to a club and you always laugh at the white folks down on the dance floor, because they have no sense of rhythm. No sense of purpose really. Cultureless.

I’m an ethnic white person. Jews can get pretty wild.

That one’s safe as houses, but again, you can’t dance to save your lives. Particularly the L.A. JAP kind of bird, because her shoes are too tight and too tall. And all those fur coats, oh, please...

Who would have expected you to move to Los Angeles?

I hate, loathe and despise the sun, but when I moved out of New York, I thought, now where on earth will I live? I thought of all the good places, but that would be too easy. And the worst place at the top of the list was Los Angeles. Absolutely like chalk and cheese, me and L.A., so that was fun, it was a daft thing to do.

Do you hold out any hope for the human race?

Not if it carries on the way it is. It’s allowed itself now to be manipulated by a bunch of geriatrics that have a fingertip control method of destroying everybody and that’s really not pleasant and I can honestly see them doing it. I’m well aware that that’s how mankind will conclude itself, selfdestruct.. I’d love to be proved wrong.

Do you think there’s anything the ordinary person can do to change things?

If the majority cared more, yes, then things would have to change. Let’s just deal with America—for instance, they think if you get rid of the nuclear (stockpile) that Russia would invade. Why on earth would they want to invade this madhouse? What would they do with it? Where would they begin? They’d be lost. They’d spend all their time in Times Square, buying Sony Walkmans and checking out the theater houses. Be sensible, America has much more to offer. Russia being so paranoid in itself is equally foolish.

In terms of taking action...

The “Rambo rules” nonsense from last year was very dangerous, bad stuff, because too many young heavy metal fanatics take all that literally because they don’t really know what war means. It’s not on.

Do people approach you to support causes?

No, not anymore. They used to, years ago. f’m sorry, I won’t be roped in naively to any of that nonsense, for instance this Band Aid thing. Yes, Mr. Geldof did set it up for all the right reasons; I am assured in my own mind about that. It’s unfortunate that Bangladesh hasn’t taught these people a lesson. The money will go nowhere really fast. Be aware there’s a civil war going on in Ethiopia; which army are you going to be feeding, Bobby? The government has already said that they won’t let that stuff in. It’s quite sad.

I do think, watching Band Aid live, some of the acts were there just to promote themselves, they really had a ball with their champagne backstage. I wasn’t even asked. I’d asked some serious questions and I’d want some serious guarantees.

Then again, you’ve got starvation here in America, in this very town. Just drive through the Bronx and learn an immediate lesson. If the government of Ethiopia is telling you to eat shit and die and leave us alone to our own destruction, you’re wrong to try and affect that. Clean up your own garden. There’s something like 4,500,000 unemployed in England at the moment— that’s outrageously high. Clean that up and set an example for other countries that it can be done.

What does somebody have to do to earn your trust?

Hey-hey, that’s gonna take some time. But don’t tell lies, that helps.

Is it hard for you to deal with the idea of growing older?

No.

What value do you see in increased years?

Knowledge, wisdom, happiness. No, I honestly don’t care about getting older, that’s perfectly fine, all settled in my mind. I’m not Pete Townshend. “I hope I die before I get old,” it’s a silly thing to say. Even at 15 I realized I was going to be 30 one day; you can’t pretend it’s never going to happen. There’s nothing wrong with being older so long as you don’t grow older in your attitudes. Even if you’re not particularly happy, then go out of your way to make sure you will be from time to time. Do treat yourself kindly.

Being a grownup carries a lot of responsibilities, doesn’t it?

There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what makes life enjoyable, facing up to your responsibilities And working out a solution for it, yes, absolutely, thank you very much. 0