Then, Now, And, Why

(1) WHAT CAN WE, AS AMERICANS, DO ABOUT THIS?" WE HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM.

I was having tea with Ronnie James Dio (singer/lyricist) and Paul Clark (road manager/famous Australian disco dancer) at a very pleasant cafe in Indianapolis. Black Sabbath were near the end of the first third of an unusual U.S.-to Britain-to U.S. tour. Mob Rules has been released three or four weeks earlier. Mercury was not quite visible in the morning sky.

Dio (and new drummer Vinnie Appice) are as American as you and I, whereas Sabbath mainstays Tony Iommi (six strings) and Geezer Butler (four) are limeys. I felt an instinctive friendliness towards Dio for two reasons: one, Id noticed he always graciously invites people to precede him onto escalators; two, wed both been watching the same football game on TV in completely different hotel rooms and both wanted the Giants to win. Feeling I could trust my short fellow citizen, I invited him to explain why he thought Americans were so enamoured with heavy metal.

☆ ☆ ☆

DIO: The British were the first to have the balls to have long hair. I mean, you remember when the Beatles first came out everybody said, ËœMy God, look at all the hair. They didnt have any hair at all, but in comparison to the crewcuts running around this country at that time it was a real shock...

I think the rebellious nature that Americans have always had admired the rebellious nature of the British people (which was) showed with long hair, with the type of music they presented, with the shows they presented. Britons go for it. They go for their shows, they go for spectacular things. They always had more amplifiers onstage than anyone else, bigger FAs than anyone else, more wattage than anyone else, they always seemed to be—in interviews—more rebellious than anyone else.

How anyone could possibly compare Ozzy me, vocally, really has to be either completely stupid or totally deaf, --Ronnie James Dio

(Some pause for thought, then, smilingly.) But Ive alvvays claimed that the British are not actually British. My wife is British— But is she actually your wife?

DIO: Yes, she is.

OK. But she's not British.

DIO: (Confused) My wife is British but shes not...?

You said

DIO: I see, I see. Actually, that was very good. If you want to take me true to what I said.

What did you mean?

DIO: All I mean (lowering his voice) is that the British are not of this planet. They arent. Theyre from Mars; definitely, theyre from Mars. Or some other place, but definitely not from here. The reason I know that is because my wife is British. She always manages, wherever we go— the British always manage to attract other Britons,

You mean without talking or playing soccer?

DIO: Yeah. For some reason, we stumble upon them in supermarkets and the next thing you know theyre invited into our home to live with us. There seems to be these great pockets of British communities wherever Ive been, and theyve always seemed to come out ahead. Wherever they go.

What can we, as Americans, do about this? DIO: We have to kill them all. Each and every one of them.

Great!

DIO: Actually, thats a very stupid story, but there was a time that I was convinced they were actually from another planet.

Dio went on to explain that road manager Clark was not offended by the Final Solution, since he was Australias (not Britains) foremost dancing expert, a lie I agreed was good enough to present as fact before we continued along more prosaic lines.

It looks like the album (Mob Rules) hit fairly high in the charts. Where'd it come in, #30 or something?

DIO: 38 or 39. We didnt know, we were on the road when it was released. We only know when we talk to you or someone who says, Hey, the albums doing real well." (Pretending to talk to himself) Oh, it is? Oh great. Thanks." I mean, its only going to do as well as its going to do. It doesnt make any difference, does it?

Not to me. But tt> you, Id think the money— ,

CLARK: You cant really go by the charts. No, but for the media its a good fake out. Hey, Black Sabbath are really hot. "

DIQ: Sure. It is.

CLARK: I just checked out some; of the albums that have been sold, compared to others that have done 35,000 in two weeks—and ours has done 60,000 in ten days: Well, you look in the charts—its so ridiculous.

couldnt work with Ozzy. There was no way; it was impossible. —TonyIommi ■■ If

Well, why dont they release sales figures? DIO: So the public can hear it. Yeah. CLARK: Sure, they, should do it. Why not? Why not?

DIO: Its about time the kids knew who was hyping them and who wasnt. Tell the truth. Why not? They have to tell the truth > in big business, dont they?

Well...

o DIO: Well, theyre Supposed to. But, I I mean, this industry doesnt some close.

^ Its true, but thats part of the charm of the •£ industry, I guess.

5 DIO: I guess it is, yeah. If it has any charm. i Left.

Enough of that. Hows Vinnie fitting in?, DIO: Great. Hes a great guy. Obviously, we wouldnt have taken him on unless he was a great drummer, but hes a really, really good person, and that was of prime interest to us.

CLARK: (As Appice coincidentally joins us.) Vinnie, this is Kordosh from CREEM; John, Vinnie Appice.

APPICE: Is this an interview?

Well, its more like blackmail than an interview (To Dio) Tell me, Ronniehow do you defend your last statement that Vinnie is a no-talent drummer who cant last in this business?

DIO: Well, only because I think his brother is so much better than he is. Thats why I had to say that.

APPICE: He is. He is.

How is Carmine doing?

APPICE: Oh, hes just doing his own thing—he has an album coming out after Christmas, a solo thing.

Good timing. The post-Christmas album rush.

APPICE: For that belated gift.

DIO: In fact, thats a really good idea. Someone should put an album, out that says, Sorry I forgot Christmas, heres your gift." We should go into business together, you have some really good ideas.

Thats why Im so rich. How so you guys feel about being part of the Sabbath legend?

APPICE: I hate it (laughs) .

Do you care? Are you annoyed by the question? Should we just forget the whole thing?

DIO: I sometimes get annoyed. I think its because—as an individual—you feel different thanthe person who asks the question. I mean, I dont feel—its been three years for me now, two for Vinnie— that it should make any difference. Ive done two albums with the band, Vinnies only done one. I dont consider Vinnie and myself to be in the same category, really, especially since—being one of the major writers in the band, it makes a difference as well—but that has nothing to do with the difference between Vinnie and I. Im sure he feels the same. Oh, youre one of the new guys."

Im just thinking of a former vocalist who hasnt been exactly charitable towards Sabbath. Are there hard feelings, or what? DIO: Well, there seem to be a lot of hard feelings on his (Ozzy Osbournes) part.

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But I dont know if thats just press or what. It was just a story I read.

DIO: I dont know. I dont know what his true feelings really are. I dont even care what his true feelings really are. Im not concerned with Ozzy at all; I dont care what he does and I dont really care what he says. I think Ozzy has made enough of an asshole of himself by what he said that we dont really have to make any comments about it.

It was pretty vitriolic.

DIO: I think so. I think it was.

I think he said you had a good voice, though. He did say that.

DIO: Well, hed have to be deaf not to know that, wouldnt he? (laughs) He may be deaf, as a matter of fact. The thing that annoys me the most, I think, are comparisons between Ozzy and myself as singers. Ozzys not a singer, I am—thats the difference. How anyone could possibly compare Ozzy to me, vocally, really has to be either completely stupid or totally deaf.

I think a lot of people think of Masters Of Reality and shit like that when they think q4 Sabbath.

DIO: Sure, I can understand that. But we never claimed—and I never claimed—that this band, Black Sabbath, is the Black Sabbath that was. I never claimed that at all. This is a new—youd have to call it a New Black Sabbath." But we couldve call called it Tommy Miami and the Mellotones, we couldve called it that, and we still wouldve done Paranoid" and Iron Man" because of Terry and Tony. Now, Terry wrote all the lyrics to those songs that Ozzy claims he wrote, and Tony wrote all the music to those songs that Ozzy claims he wrote. Now, who has the right to do those songs?

Paul McCartney, if he wants to.

DIO: Yes, he does. Anybody does. And that seems to be Ozzys bone of contention. Youre not Black Sabbath, so you shouldnt—"; well, nor is he, so he shouldnt, either. For him to say there is no more Black Sabbath is one of the biggest ego trips Ive ever heard of. We dont feel that his success has anything to do with our success, or his success has anything to do wih our failure—should we fail—or vice versa. None of us have failed.

It seems that youre both doing well.

DIO: Its just that theres no need for this kind of mudslinging. We dont mudsling; I refuse to mudsling.

Its already on tape and you cant stop it. DIO: Theres no mudslinging inwhat I said. Theres only truth in what I said and theres only lies in what Ozzys said. And thats the difference."

Dio is right; there is a difference. Black Sabbath will discuss Ozzy, but only if theyre asked—Im not sure the converse is true.

The tea bill was settled, and Dio, Clark, and myself went off to a radio station where Dio was to be interviewed; the other Sabs headed for the arena for a sound check.

(2) YOU WRITE FOR CREEM, HUH?

I HATE THAT MAG-YOU KNOCK MY FAVORITE BAND. WHOS YOUR FAVORITE BAND?" KISS." WHOS YOUR SECOND FAVORITE BAND?"

As we drove to the radio station, Clark was noticeably agitated, as befits a road manager, about time and sound checks and where people are or arent. Dio and I talked about sports, and he filled me in on why he generally dislikes radio interviews.

˜˜Wait, youll see.1 The phone-ins are the worst, though."

How come?"

I did one and at the end the guy said, ËœAnd that was...uh...whats your name again? "

Sounds like fun. You shouldve made up a name or told him Ozzy Osbourne."

After what seemed like an interminable ride to Paul Clark (15 minutes or so), we arrived at the station. The DJ (I wrote his name down on a piece of paper Id been planning to lose) and Preston Ace" Cosby (the stations exuberant graveyard shift jock) greeted us and showed us into the studio. Ace managed to intrigue me right off the bat.

You write for CREEM, huh? I hate that mag—you knock my favorite band."

Whos your favorite band?"

Kiss," Ace proclaimed, which sort of surprised me. He looked to be well into his late teens or early twenties.

Whos your second favorite band?" This looked like productive soil, if you know what I mean.

Van Halen. They really know how to party down."

Jeez, thats funny. I was talking to Van Halen and they told me they cant stand you. But only you, Ace—they like everybody else."

As luck would have it, Ace turned out to be a pretty good guy. A photog as well as a disc-spinner, he told me he had pictures of Kiss sans make-up years ago and never cashed them in. Crazy, huh?

Meanwhile, Dio gpt a few surprises of his own during the interview. The questions werent even stupid, shedding a lot of light on Dios career' in Elf and with Blackmore in Rainbow. He even addressed himself to the Heavy Metal LP, an enormously bad disc that has an earlier version of The Mob Rules" on it.

Well, in a nutshell, we were offered to do a song for the film through the affiliation of the producer with Warner Brothers, who were to release the album. They gave us a script and they gave us a very brief video of it; it wasnt done in animation, it was done in stills—artists drawings.

We were able to choose whatever segment we wanted to write the material for we chose the mob scene—and therefore, ËœThe Mob Rules.

As for the film, I thought the animation was excellent. But I thought that, as far as calling the film Heavy Metal and using as little of the material that we wrote—and the other people wrote—was an absolute rip-off. A complete and total rip-off.

The music in the album is good, but I dont think that Stevie Nicks is much of a heavy metal artist. I dont think Don Felder is much of a heavy metal artist. There cure others on there—Steely Dan, brilliant artists, one of my all-time favorites—but in the context of an album called Heavy Metal, I just dont see the connection at all. The album was done well, but it wasnt representative of what the film was called."

Dio handled other questions, including the inevitable Ozzy question hed warned me to listen for, with equal aplomb. On the way to the sound check, I asked him what happened. He just laughed and said that this one was better than most.

(3) AFTER THE TECHNICAL ECSTASY ALBUM, HE WAS JUST GETTING DRUNK AND TALKING DUMB ALL THE TIME.

After the concert, I talked for awhile with Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler, the remaining original Sabs. I asked them how things had soured with Osbourne. They told me, albeit reluctantly.

He left the band just as wed started writing the stuff for Never Say Die," Iommi said.

Well, first it started on the Technical Ecstasy tour, back in about 76." Butler interrupted. And he just wouldnt sing any of the new songs—he just refused to do anything off the new album."

And he was getting drunk and talking dumb all the time," Iommi added. Messing himself up right when we were going onstage. So we got through that tour and then he left the band just when we started writing Never Say Die. He left and we got this other singer—we started rehearsing with this other singer and it just wasnt working out. Then we got together with Ozzy again."

I think hes a bit annoyed that we were successful after he (finally) departed," Iommi said.

I think that is it, yeah," Butler agreed quickly. ËœCause he was expecting us to fall flat on our faces when he left."

Why?" I asked.

I think he believed in what he was saying to himself and to the press. Believing his own lies. What was annoying ...he was doing a radio interview and he said that he wrote ËœParanoid. He had nothing to do with it; Geezer wrote all the words to ËœParanoid. He must be trying to prove something, saying he wrote this and he wrote that," Iommi answered.

Are you working together better, now?"

Oh, yeah. Much better," they said;

Ysee, we couldnt work with Ozzy. There was no way; it was impossible. Wed start fucking rehearsing, hed go outside for a walk or something and hed come back without a fucking clue as to what was going on," Iommi said. Not the faintest idea."

Going back to what Ozzys said about all the time we spent in the studios—it was because of him. Hes saying one thing, covering up for his fucking mistakes. Thats the annoying thing—because everybodys done so much to help him, in the past, and hes so hateful against us...I dont know why. Because everybody in the band like, gave everything to that guy. And hes just turned around and shit on everybody, as far as Im concerned," he concluded.

Well, itll all come out in the wash, I guess," I said, knowing, full well whod be doing the laundry. As things stand, everyone in Sabbath seems perfectly happy with the status quo. Nobodys looking back—I noticed during the show that The Mob Rules" sounded just fine, even though it was played after Iron Man," which sounded overwhelming.

Back at the hotel, I had a drink with Paul Clark and went up to my room. I checked Black Sabbath off my list of potentially unlikeable bands and looked out the window, but it was too early to see if Mercury would be visible in the morning sky.