THE VOICE BEHIND "LITTLE T&A"

THE VOICE BEHIND "LITTLE T&A"

KEITH RICHARDS ABSOLUTELY ALFALFA?

by

Ray Bonici

The interview with Keith took part in the Stones rehearsal room at Long View Farm, prior to the Stones tour. Some 20 Ovation guitars lay in front of him. He can take any one he likes, was the remark from the Ovation rep. He does. Keith tells me that he hasnt bought a guitar for the past 15 years.

Slightly graying, the Keith Richards of these days is a Marboro chain smoker; as calm as ever and, despite reports, he definitely hasnt got the shakes. There were no Jack Daniels bottles or drugs in sight; in fact, he looked rather suspicious when a photographer rolled a cigarette resembling a Thai-stick. Those were the old days as far as Keith is concerned; today hes more interested in living the easy life in New York. This reflects in his speech with Yank gonnas and wannas and the occasional man. Other than that hes as British as any other English fellow living in the Big Apple.

CREEM: This is the first time Ive interviewed a gut) who was also born on December 18th.

KEITH RICHARDS: Hey...Bobby Keyes too. Sagittarians. Thats why I never worry too much about anything because weve got too much going for us. I don't believe in the stars thing, I just logically look at it and see what happens to everybody I know who was either born on that date or real close, and they say that although everything might look like the worst in the world its all cool a couple days later. Youve handled it and you know how to do it. We got a lucky one because we all got the good things going without the hassles that attend all the other good ones like Leos. (Jagger is a Leo). Sagittarians turn out to be consistently good guys and get around any problem without even really trying. You just rely on your Sagittarian frame of mind because—Ive now got the scrapes that nobody else could have got. And Im sure Bobby Keyes too. He was born in Dallas and I was born in Dartford, Kent. I had Hitler raining bombs on me in 43.

Theres quite a bit of difference between rehearsing in Dartford and at the rather expensive Long View Farm in North Brookfield. Massachusetts.

Not really. In Dartford, more than ever, I was always in front of my mothers wardrobe mirror doing my Elvis Presley act...and that was the same thing really. See us rehearse and you know what I mean.

TURN TO PAGE 36

CONTINUED FROM PAGE 32

Talking about the Elvis era, I just heard you playing the Everly Brothers in your room. Youre still playing that stuff?

Yeah. They're friends of mine. We did our first tour with them. We opened the show for them. We go back a long way. There was also Little Richard and Bo Diddley on the same tour. That was a heavy period of education.

Here we are again with another album, Tattoo You. This one seems to have worked as opposed to Emotional Rescue, even the fast side and the slow side idea.

In the past that idea had cropped up several times, and quite often we thought of that because people put Stones albums on at parties mainly. Theyre party records a lot of the time. I mean, who wants to have two fast songs and then, just as everything is raving, a slow one comes up. But we never did do it before. So this time we thought it would work and it seems to have, I think.

The track that you sing on the album is Little T&A. Its also known as Bulldog.

Bulldog was what I called it when it wasnt really finished but then I decided not to call it that because I thought I could get that title to fit on some other track much better. So now Ive got to write a song about bulldogs.

What is Little T&A about? A way of life perhaps?

Yeah. Its basically about the way we live and what were doing right now. Its about the chaos on the road and about the little bit of salvation that you get.

In other words...rock nroll.

Yeah.. .and tits & ass.

Many people have asked for your comments on rock n roll, especially the grandiose thing its became and the sophistication it upholds to many bands. Do you still have the same views about it?

Yes. Its something which is on the fringe of your mind when you are working or playing into that. If youre a purist, and I think except for one or two bands rock n roll doesnt really exist anymore in its strictest sense, because rock n roll, if you want to take the ingredients, is the line-up of the instruments...the electric guitar, drums and stand-up bass. The beat was different then. It was a swing beat and not like it is today. That evolved later through switching over from upright bass to electric bass. Im talking from a strictly purist rock n roll sense. It evolved and you say OK, it's rock n roll, phase two, but then it got crazy with heavy metal and punk, new wave and glitter rock...but obviously the Stones are a link somewhere in that evolution too.

You have always preferred the straightforward, unsophisticated stuff.

Yeah, true, but that doesnt mean to say that I dislike the other stuff. The Stones have got sophisticated stuff as well.

Most young bands looked at the Stones and identified with you more than they identified with the original guys even though their intention was to play music in the vein of the original guys...the original rock n rollers. Thats rather strange.

I think the originals like the Little Richards, the Elvises and the Jerry Lees are much more difficult for the young guys to identify with, like it was impossible for us in a way to identify with the people that came before them, because although rock n roll started with them, their influences— the people that they liked and listened to— like, for instance, Chuck Berrys biggest influence was Louis Jordan, who is a straight sort of swing, boogie-woogie... and 1 cant relate to that stuff. So that is the same thing. You relate to the ones just immediately previous. The problem the younger guys have got these days is that they are trying to make records that sound rough and ready like our early ones, but theyve got to do it on the most sophisticated equipment. We did it on four-track.

"The last time I saw Chuck Berry, he gave me a black eye. He turned around and punched me. Lovely guy."

Like Route 66, Walking The Dog...

All that stuff. Any recording that went on before the 70s was very primitive compared to now, as far as the options that youve got, and which are not always helpful. For studios theyre helpful because the more tracks and gimmicks and effects youve got, the more youre gonna keep your client in the studio and therefore youre gonna be making more money, because if youve got 24 tracks youre gonna use them. Youre gonna have 15 guitar solos and you say Well choose later. What it all does is it makes you put the decision off about the song youre cutting till later. With four-track, the decision had to be done right there and then. Thats the great thing about it and there was no sort of time lapse between doing it and finishing it. Thats the problems young bands have if they are trying to get a sound and a feeling like that. Its like you want to drive a 1908 car but all you can get is a 1981 Ferrari and still try and get the same feeling.. .its impossible.

Bands who have chosen to p/ay rock n roll—not on/y do they want to copy your early 'sound but also dress like you, hold the guitar the same way you do, and pose like you. They look at you as the rock n* roll hero.

.. .Hmmmmm.. .sure.

For example, the first time I saw Mick Jones of the Clash he looked like a clone of you. almost. It somehow seems important for them to copy you.

I know that no matter who it is, its an important part of what you do. I mean, this is my version of the best I could make of what I wanted to do and how I want to present it with the obvious exception that I am who I am. This is my version and the easiest and most comfortable way to play and look like I look. I cant change that. But, I mean, I did the same thing. All rock n roll musicians and performers start off with a focal point of somebody before they discover themselves. First off you just copy, then eventually you start to find out if you can add your own thing to it. Rock n roll in particular is based very much upon that...they have Somebody in mind that turns them on to do it in the first place. Its the old thing of the real thing that you can do and leave behind is the thing that you pass on to the next lot. Its the old troubadour and minstrel thing. The songs get passed on, the way of doing them gets passed on, then somebody might invent a new verse to the song and that gets passed on, because basically its really still folk music. Popular music is just another popular word for folk music...music that the people wanna hear and sing, and if they like it, those songs live far longer than any person.

But are you proud of the fact that youve been sort of chosen as the person who these young people want to follow or copy? V

Its a kind of fringe thing. You know.. .its a compliment. I don't always think its right that those guys should be doing that, because its not gonna help them particularly, because Im still here. If I wasnt still here then maybe its a point. While Im still here, there is no point in copying everything that I do. Play like me, yeah if you want. Thats great. I dig listening to the guys and say Hes got my licks down, .man. But there's no need to dress like me or try and tease your hair in the same way.

I mean, this does this because it does this [runs fingers through his graying hair], I don't have to do anything to make it look like this. That can become a bit of an obsession and not necessarily the best thing to do. But usually its a period they go through. Once they get the confidence of their own chops and start adding to their own licks then that seems to disappear after a bit.

"Nominally, I lead the bgnd onstage, and / can tell them to do things that Mick can*t because he*s not a musician as such."

One other reason why people perhaps identify more easily with you is because youre not always that much in front and consciously glittering. They see you more as the down-to-earth guy. Your image comes across like that to them.

Yeah. I guess a lot of factors go into that. Like anybody else it was quite possible for me to go off the handle like Elton John and Rod Stewart and really believe and play the rock n roll millionaire star trip. It would be very easy to do, but through circumstances and things I went through throughout the late 60s and all of the 70s, I kept very much face to face with reality, mainly in the shape of a judge or policeman. And that kind of worked, as an anchor, sort of brought me down to everybody elses level, really, because I was made very aware that as far as they were concerned I was a piece of shit that they wanted to see behind bars.

Youve been hassled for most of your life. Was there ever a time when that proved too much for you to handle and you decided to quit your scene and become, say, a painter?

Theyd come and hassle me when I was painting. They would come and tear me away from my canvas if I did that, you know. Thats the way Id figure it then. This is something I, for one reason or another, need to go through. It hasnt hurt me a bit. I don't regret any of it. I did it. I mean, the impression I get from most people is that now I am the golden boy in their eyes. They feel like theyve straightened me out, which in a way they did because they hassled me so much, but they didnt get what they wanted which was the sight of me behind bars, and they tried hard for a while. Not just me but also Mick, Brian. They hounded Brian to death.

Except the quiet ones.

Yeah, right. Charlie and Bill. They sneak off. (Laughs.)

Mick kept quiet too, in a way. But you were earlier talking about going off the handle like Elton John or Rod Stewart. That reminds me a little bit of Mick. He plays the star trip many times. Does he play it up consciously, in your opinion?

He plays it up purposely more. In actual fact he doesnt do it because he is not about to believe it. I see Mick in that respect as taking the best out of that particular thing and using it but at the same time the anchor is still there. He knows. I think its something that he uses to deal with a situation at the time. You know, theyre all coming up to you. So he plays that bit. Mick has got a million roles that he works, plays and uses very well.

Every Stone has got his own identity. Unlike many other bands it has been accepted by your followers for the past 20 years, anyway. Its almost a surprise that the Stones still exist, and still have an identity individually.

(Laughs.) I think this band is still in existence mainly because the one thing that everybody knows what to do is to give everybody in the band enough room. Even if we are living with each other for months and months on end, years and years dn end sometimes, nobody ever sat on anybody or got on anybodys case. Charlie and Bill are; the kind of guys who like to keep themselves to themselves. Fine, nobody comes and tries to change that. Everybody respects each others need for what their personality requires. You know, that Ronnie and I like to do is...Bill or Charlie will say.. .I don't know how he can live like that. They just don't understand. (Laughs.)

Do you think that Bill has taken it a bit hard on himself about these stories in the press of him not being wanted by the band?

I think in certain periods he obviously has done that, but I think he has passed all that for quite a while now. Hes come to terms that he is doing things on his own, which is good for him because the amount fo time that Bill spends working with the Stones is only when we record the tracks. After that we don't see Bill anymore, but Mick and I probably work on for another year on the same material, either mixing, overdubbing or whatever. So Bill has a lot of spare time which used to really bring him down because he had nothing else to do. Now I think hes found something to do, which keeps him going and which doesnt make him feel that hes just brought in for the sessions and then...its very easy to feel that way, you can imagine.

"The Stones wouldn't have any songs and wouldn't have any direction if Mick and I didn't have this two-way thing on how to do things."

So now he feels like he is a Stone again.

Yeah. Hes definitely one.

Can you clear up for me that Busta Cherry Jones story, about him being approached by Bill Graham as an unofficial rep of the Stones to see whether he will work with the Stones either live or on record.

ItS the first time Ive heard of it. I don't know. I cant keep abreast of all the rumors.

Bill reads the papers and something like that could easily upset him again. Its like a never-ending soap opera of The Stones and Bills Departure.

Yeah but, I mean, he also realized that he had talked to one guy a little too freely.

David Wigg.

Yeah and Wiggy would go back and . write what he wanted to write. And it wasnt what Bill had said. I mean, it was a conclusion in David Wiggs mind of what he felt Bill really meant, but that was taken as fact instead of I may be wrong. He could have said I get the impression that... He came to the conclusion mainly for his article...! mean, Bill was really pissed off because he had never said that. It came to a point where he had to sue them, and so he must have felt very strongly about the fact that somebody came up and said that he was leaving. I know that he had no intention of leaving.

Does Mick still look at you as the bigger brother?

Its hard to say in a way. He wouldnt let on to me that he does, but there is, I guess, a general impression around it. Yeah, yeah about certain things anyway.

One aspect of that is the musical side of the Stones. I strongly believe that musically youre the one who is the real force behind the Stones and keep them going.

Yeah, well, I can interpret musical ideas or songs to fit the Stones. I can translate a song till it becomes a Stones song and therefore Im in a position where if I say Im not sure about this. Lets try it, Mick and everybody will consider that as a guide, the same as I will from Mick about stage things or pacing things. Its mainly because, nominally, I lead the band onstage, and I can tell them to do things that Mick cant because hes not a musician as such. I mean he can play and he can play good within what he wants to do and what he needs to play, but he cant translate what he means to the rest of the band. I know what he means and I can translate it to them.

So it is still a two-way thing.

Obviously it has to be. The Stones wouldnt have any songs and wouldnt have any direction if Mick and I didnt have this two-way thing on how to do things. I guess weve never lost the basic idea of what the Stones are and what theyre capable of, and keeping that is one of the most important things because otherwise you can just drift off. I mean it has not always been right, but was it? I mean, no way did I want Satisfaction as a single. I said it should just be a filler track on an album. Thats how wrong I can be. Sagittarians can be wrong too, you know (laughs). But generally speaking we are superior, arent we?

Some tracks on Tattoo You are old numbers, like WorriedAbout You.,.

So is Hang Fire Worried About You goes back to the Black & Blue sessions. We kept it till now because it didnt seem to fit anywhere untij now.

Numbers like Hang Fire" and Neighbours are in the boogie mold really. You must have done a milliori of them so far over the years. Don't you ever get fed up of them or do you do them because theyre easy to do as'album filler tracks?

Well. True, youll find that you can pin a lot of those numbers together. Numbers like When The Whip Comes Down, Summer Romance, Respectable, Lies, and Hang Fire are a collection of Micks songs, of rock n roll songs, in that very simple, same key and thats the way he writes his best rock n roll songs, in that very simple, straight-forward almost in a little sub-divided class of its own. But weve always played...I mean theyre part of the staple diet and there will always be one or two of them on anything well do.

I was telling Mick about this interview Ian Stewart did where he said that on the Some Girls sessions he walked out saying they sounded like bloody Status Quo.

(Laughs.) Stu has his own unique vision of the Stones which is not to be discounted. Im glad hes still involved witb the Stones. Back in 63 I thought wed never see Stu again because when Andrew Oldham got us the recording contract to sign up he said Six is too many and this guy doesnt look like the rest of you. Hes got to go. Brian, being the closest to Stu at the time was upset, and I thought We aint gonna see him no more. But Stu said Thats fine, Ill just drive you around and hump the gear about, which shows a lot of heart. But here again hes always ended up on our records even right after that thing went down. So he has always been in there as part of the band anyway, whether or not he didnt get his picture taken. (Laughs).

Hes the ever-faithful member of the Stones.

Right. Hes also one of the best, only, boogie-woogie piano players from that period.

He and Charlie do the Rocket 88 gigs. You and Woody did the New Barbarians. Did you do that as sort of an escape from the Stones routine?

Well, really I knew that the Stones wouldnt be on the road for another year or two and I wanted to keep on going on the road to keep my chops together, and I also. had this fascination for ages to go on the road not as the Rolling Stones. My idea of being the Barbarians was Im just helping Ronnie out. Im a guitar player in the band. But it was interesting to play with Zigaboo and Stanley Clarke. It was so different from the Stones.

To put it in your own words, was this another period of heavy education for you?

Oh yeah. It was interesting to play with such unique players especially since Id never been on tour except with the Stones. I just wanted to get a different perspective of what it was like out there without Mick in front and Charlie at the back.

And did you miss them?

No, because I knew perfectly well what my position was gonna be. I didnt think about it. I was just a totally New Barbarian for the duration. The shows were good and they were getting better and better. It was going to be a hot band.

"I think except for one or two bands, rock VT roll doesn't really exist anymore in its strictest sense. I'm talking from a strictly purist sense."

Have you got any plans to repeat it?

I don't aim or look or expect to repeat it. It might happen, it might not. Nobodys got any plans to do it at the moment.

Going back to Tattoo You, what are the tracks that you wrote apart from the obvious Little T&A?

I wrote T&A, Tops, Start Me Up, Slave, Waiting On A Friend. Worried About You is a joint effort. Its about 50/50 as usual, plus also Woody wrote parts for two numbers. I wrote about six and Mick five but we just keep them as Jagger/Richards compositions. I mean anything Mick writes Ive written as well because in actual fact by the time wed finish the song and finished the record I would have added little bits from a song that Id have around that never got finished and which maybe was a bit similar. Things get very mixed up. Nothing is ever just one person.

In the beginning didnt you ever have any rows as to what songs belonged to who?

No, not about that. The only rows we have is (long pause) I think this song should be on the album. No, I don't. Usual ones like that or I think the drums should be louder. Its just details that we argue about, but none of the other stuff.

You still listen to Chuck Berry, right?

Yeah, sure. Ive got everything great that hes done with me now. I carry it with me.

Somebody told me the other day, How is it possible that after 20 years he still listens to Chuck Berry for new ideas? He cant get over Chuck Berry.

Thats answered by Why do a certain number of new young bands wanna play and sound like the old Stones? The reason is the same. Its something that youre brought up with and lived with...its part of your life. There is no reason to get rid of it. Its not something that you get sick of after a few hearings. That stuff is timeless.

So you will still admire Chuck Berry, no matter what he does to you?

(Laughs.) Yeah. The last time I saw him, he gave me a black eye. He didnt even recognize me. He turned around and punched me. Lovely guy. Chuck and I have an ongoing relationship. I went from behind him and grabbed him and said Chuck, its Keith. He just didnt even look at me and went bang straight in my eye. It was a good shot. I was amazed I didnt fall down, and my other reaction was Fuckin cunt Berry! Ill get you for that as he was walking away. But eventually I decided to put a note on his guitar saying Thanks for the black eye Chuck. See you again soon. Keith.

You obviously do not only identify with his music but also with his image and personality. I mean hes been hassled as well.

Yeah, I can understand it. When he was hassled it was a circus. It was vicious and the trials went on for two years. It was so racist that I can perfectly understand why he became a very bitter man and very withdrawn. His personality changed quite a lot after that scene went down. He is always a very courteous guy, a gentleman. But after going through what he went through he became much hard inside and not really for his own good. But hes not a Sagittarian. So. (Laughs.) Im gonna start using that in every interview to get out of anything.

You and Mick both stuck to your original influences in many ways. You still listen to Chuck Berry while Mick still listens to the Isleys, Otis, Smokey and other black music.

I was as much a soul music fan. I listened to Otis and all the Motown stuff and a lot of very obscure soul music. I mean, Chuck Berry just happens to be the focal one for me because he is a guitar player, songwriter and singer. I can do those three things as well, and it was the one I started off with. So thats the most obvious influence, but,,, I mean, I am a record producer as well. Id listen to everything.

Like what?

A wide range from classical to the Specials. Dave Jordan, who is a mate of mine and who has worked with me a bit in England, is producing the Specials.

I have two questions here from Stones fans that Id like to ask. One of them is obviously Micks. She wants to know how much his lower lip weighs. Difficult one.

Put it on the scales.

Good. The other one is, When you started out you were very much anti-establishment and you kept on that way. Now you are established, so how do you keep up the anti-establishment bit as still being valid?

Yeah, when we started we were anti-establishment but not deliberately. We were forcing our positions because the establishment... what particular establishment we are talking about is important. At that time as far as we were concerned the establishment were the guys that owned or promoted these back rooms of pubs...the gigs which were totally run by the Dixieland Jazz Circuit, and we got one or two intervals sometimes to play and the crowd would go crazy automatically. But all the jazzers formed a solid wall and wouldnt let any other promoter book us. So that was the establishment. Obviously, when it got bigger we were socially anti-establishment because of our image, and the press was always saying Stones thrown out of here. Stones arrested for pissing on the wall. Would you let your daughter marry one of these? So Mnore than anything we were forced into that position and to the point where we had to accept it and then start to use it to our advantage. Because at the time you also got to realize that the Beatles were there head and shoulders above everybody else. So the only way you could possibly get through this was to get through to the kids, because their parents wouldnt like us. So that gave us that extra kick to get up there and actually get on the same level with the Beatles as far as success and doing what you wanted to do and keep the band going. You cant have two Beatles and anyway were just not those kind of people.

OK. But what about these days?

Today were old Stones. (Laughs.) OK, were established now musically more than any group has ever been established because weve been around so long. But I don't think that anybody would consider us to be part of the establishment in its full meaning, because up until the late 70s the establishment was still doing their best to do us in completely, either by locking us up or by forcing us out by taxes. Thats why we left England. They made it impossible ...we couldnt afford to live there. So even though we were established in the record field I don't think the link with the establishment, i.e., lined up with the powers that be that run the whole globe. We are just established within our particular field. So were established within an anti-establishment field.

"I don't think anybody would consider us to be part of 'the establishment * Were established within an an tl-estab lish ment field."

Did you ever feel any resentment towards groups like the Beatles for being immediately accepted, whereas you were hailed as anti-establishment?

No, no. We were amazingly mature and had an interesting relationship with the Beatles where we would time our records so that we didnt clash with each other. Wed say Look, weve got the field to ourselves, boys. When are you bringing your next one out so well hold ours back for three months?

You ran it like a monopoly almost?

But it was good that we had that understanding between us because it could have easily been one-up-manship if you wanted to. But we both recognized that that was totally pointless because there was nobody else near the level that the Beatles and ourselves were at. So it made much more sense to co-operate with each other.

So you werent thrilled to bits when they split up because you had the market all to yourselves since you really had this understanding between you all the time:

Well, we all felt that it was inevitable after Epstein died that they would split up because he was far more important to the Beatles than any manager has been to us. The Stones could survive by themselves as always, but Epstein was really the glue that held them together. They relied on him so much that when he wasnt there anymore ...they were left with all this bread and suddenly all these great stoned ideas came up. And we were trying to get rid of Allen Klein as a manager and theyre just about to sign on with him as a manager. We said, No, no, don't. Why do you think were getting out? And after that it was inevitable. We knew it was the end for them. Its a damn shame to get too big to not be able to carry on. Thats ridiculous. It was unnecessary.

The Stones never had those problems?

No, because as I say, the Stones could survive by themselves. We also learned rather quickly and through experiences of others how to avoid situations like that arising in the Stones.

One other person who was there all the time and is still here now is Dylan. He has survived, too, and he went through different periods like you did.

Oh yeah, Bob. Bob knocks me out occasionally. He hasnt knocked me out for a long time, but you^can never discount Bob. Hell always come up with something when you think hes done it all and cant cut it anymore. He goes in real deep periods of lying fallow and coming up with this sort of very marking-time sort of stuff and then hell come up with a knock-out numer. I havent seen him recently but Ronnie has because they both live in L.A., and I never go to L.A. unless I have to do some work over there.

Youd rather go to " JA [Jamaica] instead.

If I can, when I can. Its a hazard, because once I get there I find it very difficult to leave. But in America I like living in New York, which for me is.much better than any place else. L.A. is a real.. .gone to sleep. It doesnt know what to do. The music business has left L.A. and its all moved back east again.

What was that little incident with Max Romeo?

I was trying to get Max for the label. He had a great record and it was going off and on for about a year. Max really wanted to do it but Max is no business guy and he had all these managers talking for him. Max and I would say Yeah, lets do it and hed send his people in to our people and talk about it, but they just could not get it together. Some shit would come up, and Max had had this album on his hands for two or three years and and just wanted it out. So eventually he just went with this other small label and put it out. The problem was nothing to do with Max. It had to do with the record label he went with. They stuck my name and picture all over the cover and all I had done was a couple of overdubs and helped out on a mix.

So they made a big thing out of it.

Yeah. I thought they were insulting Max. He doesnt need to ride on my back. Holding Out My Love featuring K. Richards, with a sticker and a picture on it. Its the label that was doing it, not Max. Max is diabolical. businesswise and he leaves it in other peoples hands. So it was nothing personal. 1 admire that guy so much.

TURN TO PAGE 60

KEITH RICHARDS

CONTINUED FROM PAGE 40

Are you obsessed by studios, like when you finished an album, youre already there cutting a new one?

When I get into the studio I tend to stay there till the bitter end, until Ive done everything I can think of doing. I mean, Ive been in the studio sometimes nine days non-stop, just using a relay of engineers and tape ops. Three are sleeping and one is there working and when he gets tired, wake up another one and start again and keep going., I do get obsessed. Studios are very obsessive places for me anyway.

In a way it worked out right for Bill. Youve had a couple of singles. Mick had one but they didnt do much, whereas Bills single did quite well.

I heard it was doing quite well but when the album came out everybody forgot it. Its inevitable. The same thing has happened with our single. Start Me Up zoomed up the charts till the album came out. It was just a great introduction to the album. I mean thats the main thing that changed for the Stones. When we started, the only important thing was to have another hit single ready every three months. The rest of it didnt matter. Albums, nothing. It was the Beatles and ourselves that changed that attitude by trying to make albums where every song was a potential single. But that was the pressure. You know, All right, youve written 'Satisfaction now wheres the follow-up? And you go God, Ive only just finished this one. And so you have to come up with another one that tops Satisfaction if you can, in 12 weeks. Obviously you cant. Sometimes youve got to know when to sort of back-pedal a little and just ride it.. The trouble with a runaway phenomenal album is that you can never follow it up. You have to know that youre gonna cruise the next one and hope that the one after that can do it again.

What is your all-time favorite Stones album?

I have to give a couple. Beggars Banquet and Exile.

The reason for that question is simple. You have just answered a typical comment by Stones fans, by picking two old albums instead of newer ones. What I mean is, when people say, for example, Well, Tattoo You is a great album but it will never top Beggars Banquet or Let It Bleed. There is always a reference to how better the old albums were. How do you react to comments like that?

Well, 1 don't listen to any of that. I don't take any notice of it because those people will be saying the same thing about this album in six or seven years.

But you more or less said that yourself.

Well I cant exactly say Tattoo You yet because it is too new for me as an album, rather than just a collection of tracks as it has been for the past year. But, if you read what people wrote and said about Exile, those are the same people that now hold it up as as classic rock n roll album of all time. At the time they hated it. It got knocked from this side of the world to the other. So now, other peoples opinions, as interested as I am in them, don't affect me at all because there are only five people who know what the Stones should sound like and theyre the ones who will be on that stage in a couple of hours, rehearsing. Everybody has got their own idea of what the Stones are. Some say the Stones started with Satisfaction, others feel its Brown Sugar. We had a whole load of young kids who think Miss You for them is when the Stones broke through their consciousness.

There have been lots of periods for the Stones.. r&b, the pop, the rock, the guitar solo period. Now its different again in a way, although there's the old sound knocking somewhere in there.

Now its much more a band as the Stones were conceived. The original idea was never to split any instrument up to a solo point of view but the nature of the way Mick Taylor played, and he played so well that it vyas just different. I enjoyed it and we made some of our best records with that set-up too. But now, with Ronnie and I playing together, its the same way as when Brian and I used to play together when we started the band. The whole thing is to get those two guitars sounding like one as much as possible. Thats the secret. The main idea behind the Stones is to create a sound and not listen to five musicians in separate boxes. Were there to create one sound out of five ingredients.

But even with that, one cant really predict whats cooking for the next album, unlike with many rock n roll bands these days, although you did manage to puzzle and confuse your fans earlier on when you did that almost free-form Satanic Majesties album.

(Laughs.) At that time we had been on the road for five years non-stop. We totally dried up after Between The Buttons. Everybody was just exhausted. We took a year off and didnt tour anymore. Then along came LSD and it was really our first attempt at dealing with making a record, just arriving in the studio after a year off and saying Now weve got to make a record, and Brian was tripping in one corner. So suddenly there is a whole different situation and that was the result. In retrospect some of it aint bad but some of it aint good either, but at least it held that period together. About a year after that we started touring again and got it back down to the original way of working and made Beggars Banquet.

Brian had different tastes in music to you and Mick, right?

Elmore'James and Coltrane...but then we turned Brian on to people like Jimmy Reed and Muddy Waters, so he was kind of locked in a different angle to Mick and myself, and then when it came down to having to write pop songs it was another thing Brian had to learn because it was not within his field, you know.

You mentioned Muddy Waters. Black Limousine reminds me a lot of Mannish Boy.

Yeah. Its Chicago blues. Black Limousine is a straight middle 50s Chicago sound and Mannish Boy comes...actually it was written by Bo Diddley and it was another one of his Chess Records Chicago Blues numbers. Thats the connection there, really. The inspiration and the sound is out and out Southside Chicago blues which' is what we started playing when we got the group going. Thats what the Stones were. We were Londons white imitation of Southside Chicago blues, and it worked.

It worked and so has Black Limousine. Its almost like going down memory lane for the Stones and churning up tunes that sound as if theyve just come off Let It Bleed or Exile.

In a way, yeah. The Stones always tend to do that. If you heard us rehearsing during the first couple of days...wed find ourselves basically just playing the club set we used to play in 62, a whole load of Jimmy Reed stuff. We always go back to base one to start with before we start trying any new songs or Stones songs ever. Its the same with the songs on the album. When we wrote these numbers, which range over a period of three years, we wrote most of those with the same attitude of going back and touch home base first like it was 62 or 65 or whatever, because basically those tunes we did then were our whole intention of what we should sound like.

How prepared are you for this tour?

As long as we got ail the band in one spot we are prepared but the rest of it comes like that (flicks fingers). Its a long tourwhich will take us till December.

Can you personally handle it, all those gigs and traveling and all the other things that go with tours?

I find it harder to stand three years off the road than three or four months on the road because working and being in such a frantic business for so long, its the times when you have nothing to do that you find the hardest to deal with because you feel like the world has dropped from under you.

Well you were certainly being busy about two years ago with the law, but now maybe youre only kept busy with good things.

Yeah. Now I am busy doing what I do best. Im not too good in court, you know.

There was that whole period when people were saying that if Keith gets locked up, the Stones would finish because you are undoubtedly the driving force behind the Stones...which I think is true.

Yeah, but I mean, to me there's maybe that one position that with Brian, Taylor and Ronnie, that you can manipulate and fool around with, but thats the only position in this band that you can take a little bit of leeway and have somebody different there. You know the rhythm section...you know, I wouldnt go onstage without Charlie anymore than he wouldnt go onstage without me. Same with Bill and same obviously with Mick. Youve gotta have those four for the right combination.

Its like what makes Coca-cola, all the ingredients have got to be there.

Yeah. The difference being that Cocacola know what their ingredients are. We only know there is four guys. We don't know why, what it is about...I mean, Bill, Charlie, Mick and I are very different people in varying ways, you know, but the chemistry is there. The ingredients are right. So it works. Thats the difference between Coca-cola and the Rolling Stones.