BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS

When the hotel room door opened, a fiqure towered overhead. It was, perhaps, the center for the New Vork Knicks greeting us, or better still, a huge, tawny cat who'd just been awakened from a long hibernation. The king of the jungle yawned, blinked his sleepy eyes and scanned the little bodies before him.

“Yeah, hi,” it grunted.

A few minutes of shyness prevailed. The

man so many (men) describe as “ugly” we

found a squeaky-clean, pink-cheeked,

pouty-mouthed kid in a jumbo frame.

The hotel room was not Detroit’s finest.

“It has a bed,” Joe remarked when we

apologized for his surroundings. “That’s what s important.” And despite our long cross-town freeway jaunt to this run-down

Quality Inn, we were finally face to face

™an whose music, lyrics and

mite* rLV°iU "2 \ drew us somc 300

10°LookShar “ taint our work much, we got into Joes music, really, as women in awe that a man was writing such lyrics. Sure, the music Was as derivative as most first albums, but it was the thought behind the music we found fresh—the things he was writing about were things we cared about, and it was a treat to find a man thinking about them as well. A great many men seemed to dismiss Joe as a freakishly ugly Costello/Parker clone— maybe part of his music’s attraction to women (and we sensed a large portion of his following was/is female), was the (for a female listening to American radio) absence of any macho posturing; no “Come (a) drive in my car (b) beat my meat (c) have the most intense orgasm you ever had you sweet thang (d) come back screaming for more, b-a-b-y...” that may be appropriate cruising music for pubescent males, but not much more. And all without wimping out totally, which is what men go for when they crave vulnerability...your Dan Fogelbergs...Nils Lofgrens...James Taylors... (No woman wants to listen to a man Carly Simon bosses around.)

I don't think...

Joe tries to hide his deeply romantic side very assiduously—this, perhaps, a female finds touching. When we met him backstage in Cleveland in April for the first time, someone remarked, “You’re really a romantic, ” and Joe sat bolt upright, bristling... “No!” The blush gave him away. Irresist: able, honest, and totally male. The type of thing men would never dream women find attractive (that’s gotta be Sammy Hagar fondling his crotch/transmission, or at least Paul Simenon in profile, right?).

For these reasons, then, we decided the female approach to Joe was called for—and indeed, as described below, our contretemps was as fraught with bewilderment and tension as most inter-sexual encounters are.

OK, so maybe in the 80’s women will cruise to the 1985 equivalent of Genya Raven, screaming lew dities at young cock roaming the streets, but we can cower in our corners, and fervently hope not. Until then, we think, women will appreciate Joe Jacksoq more.

What seemed to sum this whole thing up was a male person sitting behind us at Joe’s latest Detroit show, alternating between making pig noises and screaming “SUCK MY DICK YOU FAGGOT.” A bored Ramones fan (the Ramones were Joe’s opening act), who should have gone home when the boys went off—he almost made us want to hate the Ramones for bringing that out in people, whatever “that” is.

The portable humidifier Joe takes whereever he goes roared in competition with the speeding trucks on the freeway just below the hotel window and our faint voices.

“You can turn that off,” he said, as we seated ourselves. We insisted we didn’t mind it (poor Joe, caught again in an ill state of health thanks to touring throughout the States’ changing seasons), but he rambled over and shut the thing off anyway.

Here was a pretty scene: three grown adults, each suffering from intermittent attacks of no-can-speakee. Not the ideal setting for an interview, to be sure, but true. Punch “record” button. Make sounds... make him comfortable.. .make whoopee... anything! (Both our feeble questions are blended into the heading “CREEM” as neither of us wants credit for the .dumb ones.)

CREEM: How much longer will the tour last?

JOE JACKSON: Just about three or four weeks...

CREEM: We should have brought the issue with your profile...

JOE: I saw it.

CREEM: What did you think of it?

JOE: [Shaking his head] I don’t know. It didn’t make any sense.

CREEM: That’s the point! So...is this tour any different from your first tour?

JOE: Yeah, we’re playing bigger places... And the Midwest, where we’ve never played before. It’s a bit easier. We don’t have to work so hard...no two shows a night.

CREEM: Aren’t parts of your new album more intricately produced than the first? JOE: Less intricately produced.

CREEM: Maybe that’s the wrong word... more dense?

JOE: There was less double-tracking, it was more relaxed.. .than the first. We wanted it to be more like our stage act. The first album sounds very...thin. I mean, we tried not to keep that clean sound. The first one was too clean and disciplined-sounding. So I tried to get more of a live feeling.

CREEM: How come you don’t play the piano more on stage? Is it because you’re the frontman?

JOE: Yeah. It’s partly that...and more so because we just don’t need it. We don’t need a lot of clutter on stage.

CREEM: We saw your Cleveland show and then your Detroit show [last spring], and they were quite different.

JOE: The Detroit show was the worst show of the tour. The audience was really strange. I think they were all on quaaludes. CREEM: Prior to your first tour of the U.S., you told Charles Sharr Murray of the NME that you had the feeling that American audiences were a bit retarded. Do you still feel that way?

JOE: [B/ushing] I still think that the average American bloke just wants to take as many drugs as possible and go and sit in a place where the music is as loud as possible and just go, “YEAH! ALL RIGHT!” all the way through. Not me. It just seems totally fucking rudeness. And, even the audiences that seem a bit more hip—they seem very conditioned to accept certain things, to expect a band to do certain things. They’re like conditioned in a lot of ways. They’re very docile, it seems to me. And they’re not prepared to say, “Fuck this, we’re not gonna accept this.”

You just have to try to keep sane.

CREEM: What do you think of the U.S. jumping on you before the English?

JOE: Well, I’m a bit confused by it. The success we’ve got over here is far more than 1 expected, obviously. I mean, I didn’t expect the first album to go gold. It’s almost platinum in Canada, as well. I don’t know why it’s gone gold. Obviously it’s the right thing at the right time.

CREEM: Which do you prefer, recording, playing before a live audience, writing songs?

JOE: I’ve got to keep writing...got to keep writing. Got to do albums and tours. They’re part of the necessary evils. My writing’s what I enjoy the most, though. To me, writing... It’s like...like having a shit. You gotta get it out of your system, and when you do, you feel better. So from that point of view it’s all right. Recording is like.. .well, you’ve got all these ideas in your head, but you’ve got to take the time to physically put them down, you know, which is just a drag, really. Rehearsing is the same thing, you know. You want the other guys in the band to telepathically, instantly, play what you want to play. It’s just a chore. To me, the other thing that I really enjoy is actually performing. Then it all actually seems to make sense, and it comes together. You actually see the people, you know, that you’re doing it for. And that’s what it’s all about. I’m exaggeratin’ a bit, because sometimes it’s fun to rehearse, but mostly it’s a drag and I like to get it over with as soon as possible.

To me, writing...it's like...having a shit.

CREEM: It always seems that you enjoy being harrassed by the hecklers in the audience.

JOE: [Eyes widening] Oh, yeah! That’s all right, ’cause I want the audience to get involved, you know. If I can halfway start it... It just means that they’re gettin’ involved, takin’ a bit more interest. I mean, so many bands don’t take the trouble to talk to the audience. Whenever I see a band, and they take the time, I really appreciate it. A lot of things I do onstage are just things that...well, that I wish they always did. When I see a band I like to see certain things. All I’m tryin’ to do is get some kind of reaction going. And I expect them to shout back at me.. .just as I’m doin’.

[At this point our conversation is interrupted by Joe’s roadperson rapping at the door, who then deposits in Joe’s arms a large tray loaded with two coffees, a tea, an order of toast, an o.j., and a bowl of Kellogg’s Special K. We leap for the coffees, hungrily eyeing the toast and flakes. Nah, leave it for Joe...he needs the nourishment.]

CREEM: Do you get a chance to listen to much music?

JOE: Umm, as much as I’d like to, since we’ve been touring, no. And one of the things I don’t like about touring is that I don’t get the chance to listen to music. There’s a lot of new albums coming out, that I want to listen to, but I’ve got another three weeks of touring...

CREEM: When the new Police single came out it was number one in England the first week.

JOE: Yeah—“Message In A Bottle.” See, I was out of the country when that was happening as well. I was surprised... CREEM: Where do you go after Detroit? JOE: Uh, Chicago, I think.

CREEM: Right on the trail of Princess Margaret and the Pope. Did you hear what Princess Margaret said? She told the (Irish) mayor of Chicago that the Irish were pigs... Before that, she’d asked if Mayor Daley was still mayor.

JOE: What? _

[Discussion of Princess Margaret’s Chicago visit and ultimate boo-boo]

CREEM: Do you have any plans laid yet for the next album? Or is that a premature question?

JOE: Yeah, but I can’t really tell you what they are. I’m working on the next two albums...But I really can’t say too much about it.

[Joe works on his bowl of Special K] CREEM: When you go back to England, do you go to Portsmouth or stay in London? JOE: That’s a very interesting question. CREEM: Why?

JOE: Portsmouth...

CREEM: I thought your family lived there. JOE: Well, my parents live there, but that’s about it. I live in London.

CREEM: Could you ever s6e yourself living in the States?

JOE: No, I don’t think so. But if I did, it’d be in New York.

CREEM: I always feel safer walking around in London than I do New York.

JOE: [Chuckles] I always feel safer in New York. It just depends.

CREEM: I guess ignorance of the local situation is bliss. Are your lyrics based on your own experiences?

JOE: Yeah... They’re not always autobiographical, though, so that’s a different thing. They’re not true stories, like, “This is what happened to me today.” They’re all from real life—it doesn’t necessarily have to be my experience, it could be someone I know, you know. It doesn’t have to be something that happened to me. It could be my observation of things going on around me. None of them are sort of fantasies. CREEM: So much heavy metal or whatever music’s been popular in America... The lyrics are all wheels in the sky...sailing ships...

JOE: Yeah, it’s real cosmic.

CREEM: It almost seems like there’s a shift in taste. I mean there’s nothing wrong with writing about things people talk about. It sounds like a soap opera, but...

JOE: If I hear a song and I feel it was written from a real experience, then I find it much more convincing. I feel that if it wasn’t right, it wasn’t from a real experience, it wouldn’t sound convincing. I think that the best songs that are written are songs that are just, uh, from the heart.

CREEM: Do you still find you can go to gigs without being harrassed?

JOE: Yeah, I do. I mean, I get recognized a lot over in England, but that’s all right. But over here it’s been pretty bad.

CREEM: It has? What’s been happening? JOE: Well, like I can walk around in the U.K. and I’ll get recognized, but people don’t sort of shout across the street at me. It’s over here that it’s pretty bad. People who just hassle me all the time, come up to me and tell me how glad they are that I really “ROCKED OUT’-crap like that. There’s a certain concept of stardom. Like, when someone’s a star, oh wow, he’s a star, that’s it, you know. Let’s go get his autograph so we can show it to our friends, you know. And he doesn’t want privacy or anything, he’s a star.

CREEM: It’s probably because in London, there are so many musicians around, it’s not such a big deal.

JOE: Sure, people are a bit more cool about TURN TO PAGE 62 things, you know. They don’t rush up to you and say, “Hey Joe, you did great! Give me your autograph!” Because they think it’s just spmething uncool, to do that. You know, it just isn’t good taste. But it’s also—the English rock audiences tend to want working class heroes, rather than stars. So, they don’t want the “I want to be a star'’. ..thing.. .which is great. But as soon as you’re a success in the States! a lot of people start to up their noses. I’m not defending—I mean, the British music press, for instance, is very trendy, over trendy. Consequently, certain percentages of the actual record reviews, they’re very trendy as well.

CONTINUED FfeOM PAGE 45

CREEM: What albums specifically do you want to hear.. .are you excited about?

JOE: The new Talking Heads album I like... That’s the main one, I think. I play a lot of reggae stuff. When 1 went back to fcngland I went to Daddy Cool—it’s a reggae record shop, so I had a spree at Daddy Cool’s. CREEM: Have you heard much of James White & the Blacks—the Contortions? JOE: Oh, no—I’ve got the album, but I haven’t had a chance to play it.

[We pin down the fact that Joe has the older Contortions album and lord it over him to some degree.]

CREEM: Have you gotten any feedback about the new record?

JOE: No, I haven’t had much-at all yet; it’s a bit early. I haven’t seen any reviews over here.

CREEM: Just read Charles Shaar Murray’s review of your album in the NME.

JOE: That was great! The review in Sounds didn’t make any sense. The guy just rambled on'saying how good it was, but made it sound as though he was being sarcastic. So it’s obvious he didn’t think it was good, but he didn’t say why;

CREEM: It seems as if Sounds has gotten a bit more trashy...

JOE: Oh, it’s always been trashy, though most of the time it’s not too bad. I mean, I don’t think it’s so terribly trendy as the NME. CREEM: With the NME, with each writer, you usually know ahead of time what their attitude’s going to be.

JOE: Oh, yeah...Charlie [Shaar Murray] is the only writer who seems to have any sense... And not just because he likes our album...

CREEM: How have the Shows been going? JOE: Oh, they’ve been really good. Toronto was rea//y good.

CREEM: Where did you play there?

JOE: Uh; Seneca College...it was in a big gym. And they actually put like tarps up on the walls to absorb the sound. Which is incredible. No one ever does it, and I don’t know why. Because there’s always a terrible sound in a gym. But all you got to do is something like that. And when they do it, it’s a good sound.

The gigs have been really good. It’s just that I haven’t been feeling very well at all... CREEM: Both times you’ve been over here you’ve been sick...

JOE: The last tour was so heavy, really, though, that by the end of it I was just worn out.

CREEM: Plus, you hurt your leg—or foot— right? When you jumped off the piano in T

JOE:[Scou>/] Yeah.

CREEM: Are you going to do “Life is Just A Bowl Of Fucking Cherries”?

JOE: [Sm/7/ng] No.

CREEM: [Groans] Oh, no...we didn’t tape it... What are you doing for an encore now? JOE: We’ve done about five things—it just depends on how we feel. We actually do a Ramones number. Maybe we’ll do that tonight.. .see how we get along with them... CREEM: I went to see the very last date of the Elvis Costello tour, when the Rubinoos were opening for him. And by that part of the tour, they had every one of his songs down pat. So in the intro to each of their songs, or in the middle, wherever, they’d play riffs from “Watching The Detectives,” or “I Don’t Want To Go To Chelsea,’1 or whatever, just as a'faugh, then they’d go back to normal.

JOE: Actually, I saw one of the greatest bands I’ve ever Seen at Hurrah’s in New York. They’re called the Kojaks. These four singers, all dressed like Kojak, with baldhead wigs and lollipops and stuff and they come on stage and shout, “Who loves ya, baby?” and throw lollipops. And everything they did was, like, swing! And they did a swing version of “Watching The Detectives.” It was just great. They had a brass section and everything...[sings, snapping his fingers] “Watching the detectives, bop-bop”.. .Amazing. Apparently it’s not a fad, they just did it for laughs, you know, they’re really called something else. And everything they did had something about crime in it. They did “Blitzkrieg Bop” as “Blitzkrieg Cop.” It was great. [Actually they were the band that was headlining, The Laughing Dogs, and they opened their own show as the Kojaks. — Ed. ]

CREEM: The Ramones are usually funny... JOE: Yeah. I’d never seen them. I missed them so marty times—they played in London the same night we played. And they were, gonna play Portsmouth just before we left for the States, but they cancelled.

CREEM: They’re just touring now, on their own—Warner Bros, isn’t supporting the tour. When they first came to town, the first time they played Detroit, we gave a party for them at this house.!.And Joey was bitching about how they hadn’t gotten them a sound check. Some wit yelled out, “Oh, c’mon Joey, all you have to do is turn the amp up to ten, you don t need aNsound check!” He went, “Huuuuh, yeah I do!” JOE: I’d just imagine that the sound check would just be Joey yelling “ONE-TWOTHREE-FOUR!” And that’d be it, if that sounded all right.

CREEM: It’s Dee Dee who does that... Sometimes I’m afraid he won’t get past three.

JOE: Right.

CREEM: I used to think they were all brothers and I’m not ashamed to admit it. JOE: Yeah—I thought it—no, I never thought they were all brothers, but I thought maybe two of them were brothers and that’s what they started off with.

CREEM: Tm TKe Mari’s being played most heavily on two of the three major AOR stations here in Detroit...and the third station’s promoting the show!

JOE: Oh yeah...The radio station business is very bizarre. We ran into a bit of that in Columbus. There was one station that was co-promoting the show and it was like the least important station. The other two stations were really into it. Then we found out they wanted to do an interview to promote the show, so we said yes, then the A&M rep comes ’round and says, “Don’t do that ’cause the other two stations’ll stop playing the album!” and all this, y’know. Shit—they’re like a bunch of fucking kids! It’s just unbelievable! It’s so childish! CREEM: God forbid the station should play something because it’s gpod. .-.'It’s funny— the Clash were orvthe radio when they were here7. I don’t think the radio station knew what they were getting into, because they just started getting outrageous...saying “Why the fuck don’t you play anything different—you always say tell the kids to call in, and you don’t have the album here in the first place..,”

JOE: [Disgusted noises]

CREEM: How do your parents feel about yOur success?

JOE: [B/ushes] Oh, they think it’s great. I guess they probably wondered for years and years whether I’d ever amount to anything, so this is something really... concrete now.

CREEM: Are there any specific tunes of yours that they like?

JOE: Not really, no. [Laughs]

CREEM: Have they ever gone to any of your shows?

JOE: Yeah. When we played Portsmoufh, they went. They enjoyed it, but it was just too loud for ’em.

CREEM:Jt’s funny, the range of kids who like you.

JOE: Really?

CREEM: Well, a lot of the kids who are still kind of.. .backward.. .really like your album. JOE: That’s all right. I don’t think what we’re doing is amazingly hard to get into. CREEM: That’s the great point of Charlie Murray’s review of your album. But that’s what makes for a really strange audience. My younger brother really likes your album,. and he’s got it alongside his Boston and Jpumey and Foreigner albums. And he also has the Costello albums, a Clash album... There’s really a diversion.

[Our conversation is interrupted by a ringing phone—one that hasn’t worked all day, according to Joe—and when he did ramble to pick up the receiver, it turned out to be a wrong number.]

CREEM: Your whole attitude with your music...people relate to your music because it’s everyday experiences. Like you said, it’s not fantasy, it’s real. Except for things like “Sunday Papers.” My little brother loves the part about rolling her spastic eyes—he really thinks that’s/u n ny... Aren’t you glad you’re amusing 15 yearolds?

JOE: [Intense look of bewilderment]

CREEM: Any things in particular that’ve been bugging you?

JOE: Just the things we’ve been talking about...the pressures. It’s just a hassle sometimes. You just have to try to keep sane. And my health, too... When the tour started, I had a sore throat. And I had to go and get penicillin. And now with the changing weather...I definitely got some kind of flu. I’ve had it now about a week. So what I’m doin’ is feelin’ lousy all the time. Last night was a bit tense because I had a bit of a headache, and that’s a drag... But I sort of‘manage, somehow. I found these really good pills called Zoom. They’re organic energy pills. What they do is...you take about four of ’em and they make you feel sort of alert, you know. Like havin’ several cups of coffee. But I don’t like coffee, so I’ve been takin’ Zoom. I like Zoom, I really do. I’ve been taking it to go on stage. ’Cause Fve been feeling really tired. You know, the temptation is...take lots more drugs and stuff...' But I take Zoom.

CREEM: Well, we certainly hope the next time you come through these parts you’re, feeling better.

JOE: [Sni/jfies] I just want to get the tour over.

CREEM: Maybe some day you can have your own qerm-free environment to take with you, wherever you go.

JOE: What I would like is the thing on Star Trek where after the show, I could just beam back to my bedroom in London. CREEM: An eight-foot transport! It would take longer than beaming Scotty or Bones up... ;