KEEF: “I’ve Only Fallen Over Twice In 15 Gigs!”

(Herewith we give you the first injection of CREEM's infamous STONES TAPES, in which Roy Carr, Keith Richard, and Mick Jagger set new world record?for loose talk and pinguid prose. Part the first of KElTH's incredibly normal, well-rehearsed, meticulously recorded, paint-by-number perspective. —Ed.)

Contrary to legend, out on the road The Rolling Stones attempt to lead as normal a life as one can expect when living out of a suitcase and relying on room service.

Sure, madness abounds; but invariably it's restricted to the periphery.

And there it remained when the Stones hit New Orleans for The Big One—in excess of 80,000 kids under the roof of the breath-taking Superdome, for what turned out to be the biggest-ever indoor concert' staged in entertainment history. Well over one million greenbacks were grossed at the box office, while untold thousands were exchanged at street level; over 10,000 bootlegged t-shirts were seized in one raid alone.

Days before the actual event, jetloads of fans poured into New Orleans from neighboring states, giving local and national radio and television stations an excuse to whip up the excitement. And it seemed that with few exceptions, every ticket-holder had what they assumed to be a logical excuse to drop by the hotel to parley with the Stones.

The Stones were booked into the Royal Orleans under pseudonyms, but that was no real obstacle to the more enterprising gate-crashers.

Like a chump, I checked in under my real name and, as a result, received all the weird calls, the propositions, the sob-stories and, at 3 a.m. one morning, a dozen kids with three cans of beer banging on my door shouting, "We've come to par-rrttty—go and get Mick!"

One young lady insisted, "I'm not a groupie, but I just gotta get my picture taken with Mick to take back home and show my five-year-old son. You see, the Stones are his whole life!" Another, also disclaiming groupie affiliations, stated, "Both my friend and I have driven 2,000 miles to get here. We've got no place to sleep—can we use your room? We're not leaving until we've met Mick and Keith and we don't care what we have to do." There were no takers.

The reasons were as varied as they were exotic. "I'm really Ruby Tuesday!" claimed one Southern Belle.

On the road, The Rolling Stones

M , did undergo something of a traumatic experience at 33.

run a tight ship: strictly tho^e people who are directly involved in getting the tour from gig to gig. Organizer Pete. Rudge has no room for excess baggage.

;Under the ever-watchful eye of Security Director Jim Callaghan, the net is water-tight but low-profile. You won't encounter any of the psychopaths that some groups employ to beat the shit out of unwelcome intruders. No sadistic beatings bestowed upon those who won't take no for an answer, even though on numerous occasions the Stones' personal security guards are provoked beyond belief.

Some of the kids who cruise the corridors occasionally get to meet their quarry. After one speechless fan got to have a Polaroid taken with Charlie Watts, he turned to his friends and after some considerable time managed to blurt, "It was...it was'...it was as big a thrill as when I shook hands with...with...with Edgar Winter!"

Charlie Watts was unavailable for 5 comment.

However, none of the Stones are confined to their rooms. Mick went down to the Old French Market, Bill Wyman (when not having hospital treatment for a stage injury), took in the town with his .good lady Astrid, and one memorable evening, Keith Richard, Ronnie Wood, yours truly and a few friends checked out Clarence "Frogman" Henry at a famed Bourbon Street corner bar called La Strada.

Amongst the off-duty siliconed strippers and on-duty transvestite hookers ("who're just dyin' to meet ya") who dropped by La Strada for one-for-the-road, a bunch of clean-cut college kids suddenly wandered in and peered into the gloom.

"Hey!" said a toothy, pony-haired co-ed, pulling at the sleeve of her escort, "isn't that The Rolling Stones sitting over there by the juke-box?"

"No," he replied after scanning the faces, "the Stones wouldn't be hangin' out in a cheesy joint like this!" and left in search of some real action.

La Strada became the Stones' semiregular haunt and also that of Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band.

Back in room 401 at the Royal Orleans, Keith Richard spent most of his waking hours entertaining friends like The Meters and listening to his cache of reggae tapes, Chuck Berry Chess out-takes and a number of tracks which no doubt will find their way onto the next Stones album.

As usual, the lamps are diffused by scarves and walls festooned with photographs, a Union Jack and a large blow-up of Mick and Keith* on stage which just screams to be used for either a poster or album cover. In one corner, a hospitality table; in another a couple of Boogie practice guitars and travel cases overspilling with clothes. A veritable home-from-home.

Keith and I talked casually over a three-day. period, and on the day they were due to move on, Mick and Keith managed to dash off a new song before finishing this marathon interview.

Keith was wearing his favorite green, red and yellow "Soon Come" t-shirt and denims, Mick a t-shirt and a pair of beige pants. Both were barefoot.

Throughout the interview, both Jagger and friends managed to drench his pants with all manner of liquid refreshment on no less than four occasions. Just before they were about to be herded out of the hotel, into a car and out to the airport by an expert in such matters, Alan Dunn, Jagger jumped to his feet and declared: "I'm gonna have a wash."

"What with?" asked Dunn.

"With a flannel," Jagger retorted, "and then I'm gonna change out of these Weedin' wet pants!"

"Into what?" enquired Dunn coolly.

"Into a fresh pair of pants!"

"You'll be lucky," came the reply. "All your clothes are packed and already on the plane."

CREEM: Looking back over the years, it would appear that The Rolling Stones always work best under intense pressure?

Keith Richard: Most people do and that's very true of the Stones.

But you can't deny the fact that overall, Some Girls is by far the best Stones album since Exile On Main Street?

Yeah...I guess you're right. We were feeling a little under pressure to come out with something different...or the same...or whatever.

The real difference for us was cutting Some Girls without having any other musicians present—any other musicians that we did use were only called in later to contribute specific extras. For a change, this album was purely our own affair.

Sure, we over-dubbed a couple of things later, but the actual record and the overall feel depended entirely on the five of us. And that kinda made us work even harder at it. There was more incentive.

Does that mean that when you've added Billy Preston and brass to the basic line-up, subconsciously you've unloaded some of the pressures?

Yeah. Half of it just could be that, and also someone like Billy Preston is such a genius—so used to working in the studio and so quick with it—that if he's in the studio when you're cutting a track—as opposed to overdubbing his part much later—you find that on the playback you're often following Billy's lead before we, as a band, have had sufficient time to work specific things out for ourselves.

Leon Russell often has that same effect on the musicians he works with. He may only be present as a sideman, but he'll re-direct sessions towards his own particular style.

Correct. Not that they do it intentionally, but it's true. Musicians like Billy and Leon are so strong that they impose their own musical identity on another artist's session.

Last year many New Wave bands were viciously slagging off the likes of The Rolling Stones and The Who for allegedly being over-the-hill and obsolete...

Well, now most of them know what it's like!

Taking that kind of adverse criticism into account, you were virtually obliged to deliver a killer album or face the consequences.

Well, the fact that we did deliver... hold on, we didn't feel that we were going into the studio under that sort of pressure, 'cause we always try to make a good album. Whether or not an album hits the right spark is another thing entirely.

Well then, do you feel that perhaps The Rolling Stones had become a trifle lazy?

No. I read all those reviews that insist that Some Girls is the best Stones album since Exile On Main Street— but you remember what that very same reviewer wrote about Exile when that first came out. He slagged it off unmercifully. As you're aware, Exile

I've never had problems with drugs, only with

took a long time for a lotta people to really get into.

Right, but the fact remains that Some Girls is very accessible. In the traditional sense of the meaning it's an extremely good pop album. Like it contains four or five killer cuts which could make it as singles.

Sure. Personally I don't particularly

wanna milk this album for singles. But you're right. Potentially there are at least three strong singles on it. So I wouldn't mind pulling off another track...two at the very most, then follow through with a brand new one.

We've already got a few things finished and mixed, because the ten tracks on Some Girls comprise the bare minimum. In actual fact we recorded something like 42 tracks in Paris, and although some of it isn't finished it all has the same basic feel.

So what about Paris tracks like "Fiji Gin," "Hang Fire," "So Young," "I Can't Help It," "7 Need You" and "Rotten Roll?"

"Rotten Roll" was the working title for "Before They Make Me Run". There's also a really good finished track called "Everything's Turning To Gold," and both "Hang Fire" and "So Young" are mixed and ready. I'll play 'em to you later so as you can see what I mean about the same basic feel.

£(He did. He was right. Any of the 1 tracks would have complemented the 1 new album and bode well for the next.) | There's an immediacy about Some Girls (and the out-takes) that suggest the basic tracks were recorded very quickly.

All but one track, "Far Away Eyes," were cut before Christmas and we started the sessions at the beginning of last November. That includes rehearsing...! mean, we took a month off just playing together before we actually commenced laying down backing tracks.

Over the last few years there've been tales of the Stones being incarcerated in the studio for months on end. Was the actual process of making records becoming increasingly drawn out?

Let's put it this way. The more musicians you use the longer it takes. The bigger the band the slower the process. Without any conscious effort, this time around we gripped things right down to the bare bones.

Also, you have to remember that this is the first album proper that Ronnie Wood has cut with the Stones. Luckily, unlike Mick Taylor's introduction where he came straight in and began recording, Woody and I have enjoyed two years on the road which has enabled the both of us to really get our thing together.

To his credit, Ronnie Wood has managed to integrate into The Rolling Stones' image without any problems. On the other hand Mick Taylor was always regarded as a guitarist with The Rolling Stones as opposed to a Rolling Stone.

I know what you mean. Soundwise,

I could never integrate with Mick Taylor the way I do with Woody...And that has got nothing at all to do with how good a guitarist Mick is...it's just other elements. Ten different guitarists can pick up the same guitar, plug into the same amp, and you'll find that without exception they all sound different.

It seems Ronnie hasn't allowed himself to become intimidated or awestruck by joining the Stones.

Well, it was much more of a gradual process than a split-second decision. It was by pure accident that I started helping Woody out on his first solo album...went over to his place one day to do an over-dub and stayed three months.

You once said that when a person reaches the age of 33 he undergoes a traumatic experience which often reshapes the rest of his life. Many align 33 to the belief that Jesus Christ was that age when he died.

Originally that was just an overall observation. I went through it and didn't feel anything in particular.,, [long pause]...I dunno though...I was 33 last year and the effect has taken a few months to make itself felt. There was that whole Toronto incident and at the end of that I just knew I had to finish with dope. So I guess I did undergo something of a traumatic experience at 33...

Be that as it may, you're looking obscenely healthy for a change.

Well, it hasn't done me any harm. And I was on and off junk for ten years. But—and I wanna make this clear— that doesn't prescribe it for anybody else.

Which brings me to the Big One. What cure did you undergo?

The same one as Eric [Clapton]...

Acupuncture?

Electro-acupuncture...it's so simple it's not true. But as to whether or not they'll ever let people know about it is another thing!

How does it work?

What can I tell you about it..? To begin with, I can't tell you how it works because they don't even know for sure. All they know is that it does work. It's a little metal box with leads that clip on to your ears, and in two or three days...which is the worst period for kickin' junk...in those 72 hours it leaves your system.

Is that all?

More or less. Actually, you should be incredibly sick, but for some reason you're not. Why? I dunno, 'cause all it is is a very simple electronic nine-volt battery-run operation.

So what happens after those crucial 72 hours?

Well then, it's all up to you.

Poor old Brian let It get to Mm, wMch Is exactly what the authorities wanted.

Any usual withdrawal symptoms and after-effects?

No.

Having been a regular user for ten years, how does it feel to be going on stage each night straight?

Truthfully, it doesn't feel that different to me because I always know

what I have to do and what is expected of me. For instance, part of Some Girls was made in a totally different condition to what I'm in right now. But yes, I've started to notice the difference more and more since I quit using junk.

The last time I saw the Stones in concert (Earls Court andKnebworth) there were a number of occasions when you appeared to be totally detached from what was going on around you.

Let's put that down to tunnel vision, OK.

There's an immense difference in your present stage presence. Apart from your amazing mobility you really do seem to be enjoying yourself.

Let's say, I play my guitar a lot more than I did!

But it's not just you. The Stones are performing with much more cohesion and energy. The internal communication is quite remarkable. Should someone pull something extraordinary out of the bag everyone is immediately aware of it with eye-to-eye contact.

Yes, you're probably right. It's difficult for me to tell because for one thing it's a different band and for me that's one of the biggest turn-ons. But with any tour you invariably reach a point where you become almost automatic, even though there are nights which really turn you on and nights that don't.

Usually, you hit this middle level that you sort of expect and live up to and if it reaches that level then it's OK. You can go home satisfied. But on this tour, every show is different, every show, is alive, each one has been a turn-on.

During the 60's The Rolling Stones image was a combination of sex, drugs and violence...

Yeah, but the drug$ were never really a conscious part of our image. I've never had problems with drugs, only with policemen.

OK, drugs were mentioned in a few songs, but nobody in the band went around saying take this or take that. The drugs thing was just an extra side of the image that was forced upon us by political circumstances or whatever...

...As I was going to say, after Altamont, the violent aspect was promptly phased out, leaving Mick to become the unisex symbol—a son of Brigitte Bardot of rock'n'roll...

...(laughs) yeah, in a way...

...while you made the stance of being "elegantly wasted" almost chic and as a result spawned a whole legion of Keith Richard look-a-likes.. Do you feel you fell victim to your own image? Ummm...I never felt under any pressures...you've got a particular image and people kinda expect you to live up to it...to a certain extent, yeah, I suppose I did try and live up to that image because I continued getting very wasted.

CONTINUED ON PAGE 69

CONTINUED FROM PAGE 42

You must have been aware that in the rock press you were an odds-on favorite as rock W roll's next celebrity casualty?

Oh yeah, I know that.

Were such presumptions correct?

No.

Why hot?

Because, despite everything, I'm a survivor. I know that for various reasons rock 'n' roll has a very high fatality rate. It used to be plane crashes. Then it was wicked management. More recently it has been drug overdoses. A lotta my best friends, like Gram Parsons, went that way and Gram was supposed to have cleaned up when he died.

Did the tragic death of friends like Gram Parsons motivate you in any way to kick your habit?

In a way, yes. Although I don't particularly blame junk for some of their deaths—simply because they would have done it on Something else. Like Brian [Jones] always used to say, "I'll not make it much beyond 30," and Gram Parsons also had that kind of thing about itf|

Do you think there's almost a perverse romantic death-wish flirtation that revolves around the cliches, Live Fast—Die Young—Have A Good Looking Corpse?

Most certainly, but these guys really mean it.

Did you ever have that kind of obsession?

No...definitely not.

So how didyou cope with keeping it together for ten years?

I can only suppose that I possess the kind of mentality and psychological make-up that could handle it. .

Ignoring your once-familiar aura of being elegantly wasted, you've always possessed much more intelligence than many people would credit you with. Do you feel that if this had not been the case you might have gone under?

Quite possibly, although I feel it's more instinctive than an actual thought process. It's like people are often driven by certain forces within themselves. They may well be highly intelligent and fully aware of the inevitable results but nevertheless they still succumb to their weaknesses.

However, around the time you were getting regularly busted you were openly contemptuous of your predicament, going so far as to joke about it.

, I've never taken those things seriously for the simple: reason that the actual busts have always been such utter farces.

To wake up with 15 Mounties standing around your bed after they've spent an hour trying to wake you up... like they can't even wake you up to arrest you.

Twice I've woken up in the same situation—once in Cheyne Walk, with the CID standing around my bed. - To actually wake up to it...that's something that's indelibly printed on your brain. Other times* it'll happen when you're fully conscious, but to actually wake up and discover the drug squad in your bedroom...phew!

What has been the general attitude of various narc squads when busting you?

The English...let's call it politely sarky. Like, "'Elio Keithy my boy...old lad...old chum?..you know the rules of the game!" A bit like that. Very buddybuddy, but we're still gonna do ya. They always over-act, always over do things and now that I've managed to

start beating their raps...

The thing in France has now been1 quashed...the first two or three have been taken care of and I'll take care of them because it was just the way that it was handled.

Do you still feel a mdrked man, because wherever you go there's always going to be someone who wants to make a name for themselves by busting a Rolling Stone?

Sure, I feel a ^marked man. You mean, how come all these other people have busted the Stones and the American police—who are pretty sharp—haven't?

Yes!

I'm very lucky that I've never encountered any real problems with the American police. I think it's because they are now starting to understand. They realize what happened to Brian —which was nothing more than sheer persecution.

Concerning Brian, Mick insists that it was a systematic campaign of continual harassment.

It was disgusting. Vicious.

Mick also claimed that it was the authorities who were as much to blame for Brian's death as anything else.

Absolutely. That's quite true.

Well, then, couldn't this similar chain of circumstances have had the same fatal repercussions on you?

No. Because I've always had a totally different mentality to Brian's. Poor Old Brian let it get to him, which is exactly what the authorities wanted. As far as I was concerned, I just said "Fuck 'em".

When you toured the States in 1975, it was common knowledge that various Police Departments planned "Welcoming Committees" with the result that both you and Ronnie were arrested by the Highway Patrol in Fordyce, Arkansas, for reckless driving and possessing an offensive weapon—a seven-inch hunting knife.

That only happened because we left the scheduled tour. If Woody and I had stayed on the tour, then that little incident wouldn't have happened, and I say that in Peter's [Rudge] defense. If we'd flown with the rest of the group and not gone by car it wouldn't have happened. It's as simple as that.

As quite a number of people drop by your hotel room in each town you visit, isn't there a chance that you could be set up for a possible bust?

Those kinda things are set up at a much higher level than that. Anyway, even people I know extremely well don't come to my hotel room door without first passing through our own security.

With the outcome of the Toronto incident still unresolved, have you contemplated the thought that you might actually go to jail?

As you must appreciate, at this particular time it's a very sensitive subject and therefore, I really cannot talk candidly about Canada. However, I've got a totally different attitude towards it...what can we call it, "An Old Man's Revenge!"...No, er...I dunno...No, I haven't contemplated the outcome because I don't think they've got the case to do it. I really can't say any more.

In June 1967 you spent a night in Wormwood Scrubs. What was it like?

Horrifying. But once you know what it's like you're prepared.

For most of your life you've led a very free rock W roll lifestyle, so the possibility of being incarcerated in prison must be quite frightening.

I'd say my lifestyle is one of semifreedom. It's freedom in one way but looking at it another way, what other people have that I don't is anonymity. There are times when I could cry out for that kind of everyday freedom. I can never remain anonymous—that's the reason why I've been picked up by the police so many times.

Immediately after that period when you were busted in quick succession, did you feel that whatever you did there was someone lurking in the shadows waiting for you to make a wrong move?

Yes, and that's the way they get you. And if you worry about it you're finished. That's what happened to Brian.

In one interview you intimated that all police departments are corrupt.

Yes, in one way or another, but not always in the obvious .way.

But if a kid on the streets had been busted by the narc squad as many times as Keith Richard, he'd have been sent down long ago. He wouldn't be able to move around the States as freely as you do.

And he probably wouldn't have been picked up by the police as many times as I have. If he had then he'd have been a lot more un-cool than I've been and, furthermore, he would have invited trouble.

OK. But with your reputation how come you can move around so freely without being picked up—if only on suspicion? \

Because there are no drawn lines over here. Things and attitudes are changing all the time which, in a way, is a good thing. There's a difference between what some people want, what public and social conscience demands and what the courts are trying to do.

That may be true, but things really haven't changed all that much. In many areas, The Rolling Stones are still bad news.

Sure, but they still wanted us to come here and tour. And as far as the

U.S. Immigration Authorities are concerned, they've implemented what they term a discretionary law.

Has the fact that you volunteered to undertake a drug cure program in America proved beneficial in taking off some of the heat?

, Without a doubt. Because they let me into the States to do it...it was great of them, even though I'm not blinded by it...it was probably political —a new and more understanding attitude to the problem.

And, as far as I'm concerned, the timing just happened to be right. The fact is, that before Toronto it was extremely difficult for me to get into the States, but afterwards...after taking the cure, it has proved to be much more easy. Furthermore, it has been good for me.

No more hassles?

No hassles, because I've managed to keep myself together. I've done what they wanted and done what I wanted both at the same time.

Like I said, you can see the improvement?

[Laughs] No make-up!

And you only fell over or\ce in St. Louis.

I've only fallen over twice in 15 gigs ...[laughs] but still kept playing.

Can't be bad?

Could be some kind of a record!

(Hold it, Keith . . . let's take a bathroom break ... to be continued.—Ed.) Reprint courtesy of New Musical Express. Up?