Creedence Clearwater Revival

Creedence Clearwater Revival

CREEM INTERVIEW

CREEM: Are your convictions in the music as a person as opposed to being an artist? Is there politics that goes in there, as well as your music or is it your art before your politics?

JOHN FOGERTY: The thing you said about politics in music we find that around a lot. Most places are a lot looser than here. You know...some of our convictions are in our music but they’re not in there a hundred percent. The music’s still more important. CREEM: Well, then politically, it’s all seperate from your art, or do you consider it seperate?

JOHN: No, but as an entertainer...after awhile it’s not entertainment. Too much of anything drags. What I’m trying to say is, really, that you can combine the two really nicely. It works. When I use the' term “successfully” I mean the politics doesn’t suffer and the music doesn’t suffer. They both come off but what we’ve heard described as political music is usually not very much thinking politics and not very much music either. Especially not much music. Let’s put it this way, there’s no very good example of anyone who hangs it together very well.

CREEM: What about the Jefferson Airplane, Volunteers?

STU COOK: I don’t like the album y’know? It’s a sloppy production job, and just over-arranged. I’m still waitin’ for the Airplane to do an album like what they sound like. They don’t sound like that. Words are secondary. CREEM: What about your songs, for example “Fortunate Son”?

TIM FOGERTY: It’s always been there but the music didn’t suffer because of it so maybe people didn’t notice. JOHN: See, that’s o.k. too. You mentioned the MC5 and some others, I think the best example would be Bob Dylan. It took me about four years to even start to where I could listen to him. I thought the music was awful, to tell ya the truth, and it was only because people kept saying, “Listen to the words, to the song”, you know, not “Listen to the musician.” The musician wasn’t even there, as a musician’s musician. He could put his song across but what was important was...poetry and all that kind of stuff, the critics always said After a while 1 made it a point to listen, like forcing myself, and after awhile 1 liked it. But I had to almost be spoonfed. It took a lot more effort on my part than should be necessary to make me listen. CREEM: Dylan’s changes, as in Nashville Skyline, have been referred to as a cop-out and all sorts of negative things. How do you feel about that?

JOHN: Let’s put it this way--If I were he, which is the only way to approach it, I guess...I’m sure he wants to be a musician. He either read it a lot, or realized it himself, that he wasn’t really a musician before. He could write good songs but...other people did his songs better’n he did, usually. And now he’s concentrating more on the music part. As for what his songs are saying now, as opposed to ’65, ’66, you know--he’s said all that, why say it again? I’d like him to be like that, all over again, but for him that area probably sorta went dead. He’s enough of an artist to realize that if he writes a new song just like the other one, why do it? Why not go on to somethin’ else and leave what he did untouched?

But we’re more musically oriented, let’s put it that way. To me it’s a challenge to try and be a musician, period. Forget what your politics are anyway. But we are human beings too...

STU COOK: We’re all politically concerned. But we don’t want to drag our dead horses with us.

JOHN: Right, we try to involve it in the songs but we don’t want to make it a big statement and have a lousy song to put it in. To me, that’s worse of a drag.

CREEM: Weil, what about rock and roll as a whole as a force of moving people, as a force of uniting people? You know a lot of it happened before, when the Stones came over with their bad-guy image... JOHN: Which they really helped to propogate most of themselves, right?

CREEM: O.K. but the whole field,

rock and roll as a weapon of youth JOHN: It exists obviously .

DOUG DILLARD: It existed from the beginning. When I started in rock music, I got a leather coat, greased my hair back, pulled my pants down and did the whole thing. When I was 13, 12 years old that’s what was happening then. Like, my parents didn’t dig it and they were saying, “I don’t like your hair, pull up your pants, don’t wear the coat.” It just has been a thing that way. I dug the music too. I’d hate to see the music be lost and have the other thing take over because I think it’d be a waste of a real Amerikan thing.

JOHN: Let’s put it this way...music is like a universal language and al 1 that. We all understand that part. And rock music even more-so. But if the music’s no good, nobody will listen. And like in the case of MC5 or groups that are loud to the point of...loudness is the main thing you remember besides the political part-if people won’t listen to the music then they won’t get the message. So it kind of defeats its own purpose.

DOUG: Anybody can say We all know what that’s about.

JOHN: What’s the big deal about the other fucker on their record?

TIM: It damaged the MC5 because of the limitations they placed upon themselves. They need to reach people and they’re not doing that, they’re not reaching as many people as they could. CREEM: But now that they’ve made so many changes it makes it possible for them to reach more people because of their previous political orientation. STU: They’re reaching the people who already agree with them.

JOHN: They didn’t hold onto their convictions The first thing they said was “This is what were gonna do and we’re not gonna sell out” and then the record company made them • change what the song said. And they did it and blamed it on the record company. (In all fairness to both Elektra and the MC5, it was John Sinclair who insisted that the “Brothers and Sisters ” version of “Kick Out The Jams’ be recorded. It was Jac Holzman who insisted that the version be totally

eliminated..-Ed.)

CREEM: Well, you know, everybody talks about the volume..

JOHN: Well, Em only familiar with one song, I have to admit I never even listened to em, you know, “up against the wall, (N.B..referring

to “Kick Out the jams,

And I didn’t even listen to that, I had to read the title and figure what it said.

CREEM: On the liner notes to the Five album, Sinclair talks about volume and says that you either have to submit to it or get out of the room. And that in itself, maybe that’s why youth can make..

JOHN: That’s a good statement. Richard Nixon could say those words. STU: On the other hand, if the power is to the people, why do the people have to submit to it? Why can’t they just go up and kick the band off the stage?

JOHN: I’ve heard...they sound really close to Spiro Agnew a lot of times, when they say things like that. You’ve got to believe the way I do, or split...in other words, my country or leave it. It’s just a reverse with the same thing. It’s the same kind of built-in restrictions and, after all, isn’t that what we’re trying to fight?

TIM: If somebody told me I had to submit to rock music, whether played on a phonograph or if I was at a concert, and I had to submit to it to enjoy its loudness then I would immediately start rejecting it because somebody told me I had to. I choose to because I like it. If I was told I had to submit to it, I wouldn’t get what they were saying, probably.

CREEM: But in the audience, there is a feeling about volume itself. If it’s shoddy music then you have nothing to relate-to. But there are times when maybe you can hear the words and that maybe you can relate to. And with the Five there was something that you as an audience could relate to. Volume has an intensity, a drive and...well, there’s a theory that the guitar isn’t a phallic symbol but a gun. JOHN: Isn’t that what a gun is? I think the only point we were thinking of at all is that if the MC5 hadn’t been political they wouldn’t have gotten noticed by anyone. Cause it was just blegh! You know there wasn’t nothin’ there but the politics as far as I could tell. To me it was just using politics to kind of get out in front you know, to have people notice. To me that’s like running down to your local shopping center and screaming at the top of your lungs, “up against the wall, You know the local nut, the village idiot is running around. It’s the same kind of reaction. Nobody’s gonna be following when he leads the way down to burn the post office or something.

CREEM: You say you’re musically oriented. What if you use your music as a vehicle for your politics, like “Fortunate Son”, like the first album? Do you think that you’ll be doing that more; do you think that there’ll ever come a time when you feel like you’ve gotta say this in a song? Like “Write A Song For Everyone”, I get the feeling that this is something that had to come out, like this is a song you had to write. Do you think you’ll ever want to put something down like that? JOHN: I mean, politics is the worst word in the world but the thing underlying any socially aware song at all that we have is to observe first, and to use a bit of moderation. This doesn’t mean conservatism or lack of radicalism. It means think about it. Is this what you want or is somebody yelling so loud that you can’t speak against it? And you’re just going along with it because you’ve got nothing else to do. All we try to do in our own songs, when we do it at all, is, you know, think about it and...make your own decision. Make your own mind up. I almost conciously make an effort in any song to give both points of view at the same time. So that you don’t say “Oh yeah, all them is bad, all us is good.” Somebody can stop you cold and say, “Who’s us’ and “Who’s them”. It doesn’t work that simply.

CREEM: Everybody can bring up a good point but...first of all, do you think it will ever come down to the point where you’ll have to take a definite stand?

TIM: I think that you’re not looking at our whole picture. We’ve had five albums out now and on every one of those albums there’s something that’s politically or socially oriented.

STU: Politics is such a small part of what’s happening in this country.

TIM: It’s there on every album we’ve done but maybe because we didn’t call it Volunteers or something people didn’t see it. It’s there. It isn’t like we’re thinkin’ how nice it is to live in Beverly Hills or something.

JOHN: I know a lot of people are waiting for us to say Richard”, but the only people who are going to dig me say in’ that are the ones that feel that way anyway. We’re not going to change any minds at all. Middle doesn’t mean the lack of taking a stand, by the way. We’re trying to be objective, that’s all. We all find ourselves pretty far left but that’s only because the majority of everyone else is pretty far right.

STU: You end up being a radical because everyone else is so obnoxiously conservative. The middle has just swung really heavy to the right.

JOHN: And that puts us where we are, but still we’re trying to talk to, let’s say, reasonable people. I won’t use the word adult. I just mean people who think. Nothing is ever as clear as black/white, yes/no, you know. The more a wrong situation is allowed to exist, the more grey things start to become. People start arguing the little points of grey and they forget what the real issue is anymore. The stand we take is that almost nothing about Amerika is right but just screaming and screaming and screaming all the time will only affect the radicals on both sides-you know, you’ll put the Birchers uptight and you’ll give a rallying cry to Abbie Hoffmann-and most people don’t find themselves there.

CREEM: Well, if you say that as musicians your tool is your music what...I hate to phrase it this way, because it’s not from that perspective, but what are you doing to make it better?

JOHN: The best thing we can do is not really an individual thing. Sadly. We can do that also, like you were suggesting.. .“Buy only this type product”, you know, that kind of thing. If everyone did that, it would work but the sad thing is that most people don’t. In the position we’re in, what we can do besides, is a much better thing. We’re in a public role you might say. Mainly, we can help to raise money which we do do...a few benefits and things. Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic...

STU: The anti-smack program.

JOHN: Benefits for peace candidates and things, in New York’s Shea Stadium, and the Philadelphia ball park. In the case of that one especially, we had to do it or the whole thing would’ve fallen apart. Every other one of the “Big Names” copped out . . .

DOUG: Crosby, Stills wouldn’t play, the Band wouldn’t play, Simon and Garfunkel wouldn’t play. JOHN: We had committed ourselves to San Francisco “We don’t have time to do New' York, you know, we got other places that we’ve gotta be the same week.” Finally, it came down that well, Standford blew up last week. They called off everything for the Bay Area. And New York was just failin’ down fast, they didn’t have a headliner and they were worried about sellin’ the tickets, so they just said, “We won’t do it”. When we found out that was happening we went “All right, it’s that close, we’ll have to do it.” Like a duty almost, you know. It’s like helping the Indians on Alcatraz. It’s not a great big huge thing, but that’s our best function is to help raise money for things.

TIM: Whenever a band comes along that is 100% politically oriented, I always wonder about their intentions, because they already know that there is a certain percentage of the population that is already on their side, so they’re gonna buy their records. So commercially that’s a hell of a good idea, to be politically oriented. A lot of times, that’s the intent, to make a lot of money off people you know you can make money off and that’s really not cool. CREEM: What were you saying about Indians and Alcatraz'1 STU They didn’t have a boat, so we got ’em a boat.

CREEM: And that’s really something that hasn’t been said...

JOHN: As far ,as the Indians, that’s all

right. Maybe it would help make other people start to give volunteer but we’re not going to do it as our latest press release, goodie two-shoes. STU: We lost our ass on it but that ain’t the point. They’re a political organization so to give them ten grand cost us twenty-five.

TIM: We lost our ass on it, but that ain’t the point.

DOUG: It ain’t tax-deductible.

JOHN: They gotta give one and a half more to the government, so everybody else backed out. It ain’t how much money, that’s not the point.

TIM: The revolution is being sold. You have to watch out for those people... CREEM: What about getting unknown people in front of an audience, crusade-wise? You’re playing with

Wilbert Harrison.Booker T & the MGs

aren’t exactly struggling artists.

TIM: We feel they are because they’re so damn good and no one even recognizes ’em.

JOHN: We have Ihem because they’re competent. Were trying to put on the best show possible. It’s as simple as that. Booker obviously doesn’t need the money but Wilbert does. If we can kind of stimulate his career and help him get it goin’, you know, great. Next year we’ll go on with somebody else. TIM: Booker went to Europe with us this year.

DOUG: We’re really pretty involved with that. It doesn’t have to be Robert Johnson or Blind Lemon Jefferson.

TIM: You don’t need twenty ^press releases about it, either.

JOFIN: We’re in the driver’s seat now. Now we can do what we want to.

TIM: That’ll be the best sound system in the country there tonight, everybody’s gonna be able to see, everybody’s gonna be able to hear, there’s not gonna be any bad trips. CREEM: Well, it’s really good that people get to see people like Booker T. TIM: Yeah, they been our favorite band for years.

JOHN: Like this year, we’ve1? sbrta taken over our own...we’ve stopped working with booking agencies. Not one of ’em that really understood this group and what was trying to be presented.

CREEM: You’re living in Berkeley. Do you find it hard to live there, walk down the street and have people know who you are?

JOHN: Well, they don’t really know us that well.

TIM: And we ain’t out in the street a whole lot. We’re doing a whole lot of stuff.

JOHN: You can do as much, you can do just as much to bring about change by a few right telephone calls, you don’t have to be out with a sign. Out on the street, we’re like the average man doing that. There’s a certain amount of good that comes from that but if we would be shucking off the position we’re in, we would be saying, don’t use-this immense power you’ve got here, just go out and do it in the streets. We can do much more as Creedence, we can say a lot more as Creedence. You know, money-wise, or media-position wise. You know, all those things. I don’t know how big the hall is but we can bring those people together there, at least somewhat. With a sort of singlemindedness hopefully mainly for enjoyment. But I would imagine that at least 70% to 80%' of the people there have the same likes and dislikes, especially about life, and cross over the same patterns as we have. We’re much more vital doing that than standing on street corners. We wouldn’t be using all the tools that are available if we just walked around with picket

STU: A perfect example of that was,

there’s a radio station called KPFA in Berkeley and it’s been gettin’ hassled by the government, the whole thing, They covered the People’s Park riot with a mobile radio thing and the government really got down on them, so they started hasslin’ ’em. And they came up with all these back tax, bullshit things. They looked like they were finished, so we did a thing at the Fillmore and that took care of it. They couldn’t raise that much money in a year, with all their subscribers. And they’re still on the air. If we were out on the street gettin’ our heads beat up, what the fuck good does that do and then the radio, station goes too.

CREEM: Does it take a lot of concious effort to continue . doing what you’re doing?

JOHN: Right, right. We’ve still gotta keep our passports and stuff. They can get Ralph Nader, you know, they’ll fix him up with a mistress or somethin’. Somebody’ll take a picture, you know, he’ll probably be drugged and asleep and not even knowing what’s going cm. And that’ll be it, you know, blackmail and it’s all done,

TIM: Four hundred people get busted on Telegraph Avenue, you could’ve been out shoppin’.

JOHN: The peace candidate ...thing is a good example. Originally, it was gonna be at Stanford and then it sorta fell through, so they said well, we’ll get the Oakland Coliseum. Suddenly that door was closed, but anybody else.can put up the four grand a night it costs to rent it, Suddenly these people couldn’t. Then Kezar and that fell through. Then-Candlestick and that fell through. Every available place in the whole East Bay said “no” you can’t have it that day”. That’s how they fight back.

STU: So if we personally make a lot 0f noise about what we’re doing, we won’t be able to do it.

JOHN: But right now we’re able to function. Tooting your banners and everything, then they’re waichin’ out for ya. Simple as that.