MC5/BACK IN THE USA

In which our own David Marsh and Deday LaRene listen and rap about the wonderful new MC5 album, proving once again that record reviews are essentially masturbatory and that they are the two biggest jackoffs in the business.

TUTTI-FRUTTI

Deday-I guess we agree that that’s the worst cut on the album?

Dave-Yeah I was just thinking that man, that that’s a really good thing that’s there, because you just get rid of that. And, all the things that are wrong with it are really obvious...it’s too fast... And it really sounds rushed.

Deday-Yeah, it does and I don’t know what that is. A lot of it, a lot of it is the mix. Cause it is mixed, the whole album is mixed very high.

Dave-And the person it really hurts the most is Rob. I don’t think Robin is at all...whatever you thought of Robin as a vocalist before, he was Robin. And now...he’s anybody. I think Barry said that the first night he heard the album. That remains a valid perception.

Deday-At the same time, sometimes Robin’s vocal really sounded like a boiled owl. And it doesn’t anymore.

Dave-Yeah. But the things that I always liked best about Robin don’t sound as good anymore. Just like, I think that Robin is the weakest part of their stage show now. And like that’s a remembrance of things past to be sure. You know, cause Robin don’t be crawlin around anymore. And I have some wierd interpretation of that as having something to do with him having his hand broken.

Deday-I really didn’t notice.

TONIGHT

Deday-I still think that’s a great cut.

Dave-That’s probably, to me, almost typical of the whole album. I still can’t believe it’s the single after hearing the album.

Deday-Oh really? What would be a better single? Dave-I would like to have seen the single be High School.

Deday-Once before we were talking about that and the thing that you said you couldn’t relate to is the kind of patronizing attitude. Which is like, I was thinking of it when I was listening to Tonight but what I think of inevitably when I listen to High School.

Dave-Yeah, High School is even worse, lyrically, yeah.

Deday-Andin a sense, I kind of think of that as..see, I wouldn’t call it patronizing so much as like., it speaks of a certain distance. Between them and the kids. That they’re...That the fame or whatever, whatever it is, like a year ago they wouldn’t have written songs like that. Because they’re really super self-conscious kind of songs. Dave-Yeah, both of em. It’s really interesting to me that that’s a cut they never did in their stage show until after. Until after the album was finished even.

Deday-W ell, not finished. The other thing about that, and this is the reason I think it’s a good single is because it’s really a kind of nondescript song. Dave-Well, that’s what a single is, if it’s meant for AM.

Deday-Right, but it’s just anything but taken to a higher level. Because it’s there’s that kind of coiled spring energy.

Dave-Yeah, it’s a description of, it’s atypical of the album. Exactly. And it’s good that it’s the second song on the album in a lot of ways.

TEENAGE LUST

Dave-It’s really we ird. You know when I went out to talk to Danny and Jon Landau, which was the first time I’d ever talked to Jon Landau Danny and he and I were sitting there. And the first thing Landau ever did when I talked to him was quote the iast verse of that song. “From now on there’ll be no more compromisin’-rock and roll music is the best aphrodaisac.” And that, that that was the first that he said to me, especially in terms of his association with Crawdaddy! and Landau’s overemphasis, to me, quite often, in his writing with lyrics is really significant. And the kind of stuff he wrote was like lyrically oriented pieces. John Wesley Harding.

Deday-The whole Crawdaddy! trip.

Dave-That’s a great song man...the way they used to do it. I don’t like this version at all.

Deday-I think it’s pretty boring. So far, I’m throwin’ out the first three cuts.

Dave-Yeah, I thought maybe we’d diverge on that one. But yeah I think you’re right. That’s Robin’s song, it is and aside from that there’s gone down before. I really don’t have anything to say about “Teenage Lust” except that that’s one of the songs that I was really looking forward to on the album and I’m sorry.

Deday-The thing is, that it reminds me most of the SRC.

Dave-W ow,why!

Deday-Cause that’s the kind of exposition it is, you know? The way all it is is just a series of chords opened up. Maybe that’s not true but I flashed on that middle of the second verse.

Dave-It’s musically inept.

Deday-Not inept but kind of simplistic. And that’s Wayne isn’t it? Wayne plays some amazingly good riffs on this album but I don’t think that’s one of ’em. That chord right there, I would, if I were writing and not saying it, I would write “He’s trying too hard to be simple.”

That’s the thing about the whole album, what’s good about it is the tautness. Like where the mix really works, that kind of high mix and Dennis’s drums when they all come together it crackles along you know. Like making ozone you know?

LET ME TRY

Dave-I don’t know about you, but everyone who’s mentioned to me that they have a favorite cut on the album has said that one. I don’t know, because if what Leni told me is true, man they wrote that song a long long time ago.

Deday-Oh yeah, our song. Swaying the last dance around the ballroom. If it’s not true it really should be.

Dave-What we’re talking about is that that was John and Leni’s song.

Deday-They used to dim the lights. Putting their arms around each other and sway.

Dave-That’s really the nicest thing on the album in that, “It’s A Man’s World” is like a slow song but it’s different. I never had any idea that the MC5 were capable of that.

Deday-It?

Dave-Of beauty.

Deday-Now...

Dave-It’s harsh but it’s...

Deday-That leads into a...This is REALLY a fuckin’ big deal for them to make this record. Because they had to make up a whole new kind of music at the same time. It was like they’d never played together before. Well, that’s.

Dave-That’s the rap.

Deday-Right, right but I didn’t mean it like that. They were making up a whole different kinda thing for themselves.

Dave-You know, it sounds like nobody else but it doesn’t sound like them. The lyrics, you know...At first I was really knocked out by it and then after I heard it a few times. You know when I heard it live at the Led Zeppelin concert, I felt that the lyrics were really obvious, were really blatant. But all that aside it’s really great.

Deday-Again, though, the thing that you said to me at first. “O.K. let’s be carnal now.”

Dave-That’s what I mean man, they’re blatant. But like I said, it’s like they sat down and wrote a song and said, “We’re gonna be carnal”. Fuck man, they do the same thing on “Come Together” and that’s still my favorite MC5 song ever. And I have to keep cornin’ back to that song because I think it epitomized their music. For me. Deday-That I think is the overall important fact about this record or about the new MC5 as opposed to the old MC5 is what you said about, whatever, they were avant-garde. And there ain’t nothin’ avant-garde about this at all. No matter how good or bad it is, it’s not avant-garde. And certainly “Come Together” was not the most avant-Garde piece on the album or piece they did. Dave-I don’t even know that that’s a valid thing that I would ever say that. Because I can’t think of anything that’s really avant-garde on that album. “Starship” had been done, things of that nature had been done.

Deday-Yeah, but that doesn’t make them any less avant-garde.

Dave-It’s definitely outside of the mainstream. This is mainstream American music.

Deday-This is conciously American mainstream music. That’s why they got their good Fender amps and everything. That was the idea.

Dave-It was the mainstream American amplifier. Deday-That’s the mainstream American ballad. Yeah, they don’t write songs like that anymore. Dave-Nobody has since Mick Jagger wrote “Backstreet Girl”.

Deday-I like “Tonight” because it’s a high school song but it’s with that consciousness, that extra bit of consciousness. Similarly, John and Leni put their arms around each other and rocked back and forth while he sang his ballade. And dig it, that’s exactly like the last dance always was, you know, at the high school hop. But with a consciousness... Dave-Well, they didn’t have that last dance business.

Deday-Oh, they didn’t have that last dance business you mean?

Dave-I don’t really remember it, I didn’t go to that many dances.

Deday-I don’t even know, neither did I but obviously...No but that doesn’t matter, you know, about it.

Dave-Legendarily.

Deday-It don’t matter. And even if it wasn’t it don’t matter ’cause it should have been. In the kingdom of heaven.

Dave-Yeah, it really should have been.

Deday-It meant to be, it just fucked up somewhere. But it was. And that’s cool, all those institutions are perfectly valid as long as you know what they are man. As long as you understand ’em. Same thing.

Dave-And I never thought they were capable of producing this. I mean did you?

Landau said there was gonna be a surprise on the album.

Deday-That was the surprise...I thought of that too. It was a killer surprise.

Dave-At the Zeppelin concert it was just a killer shock.

Deday-It was nice, I really dug it. That whole set man was just a delight. It was new, it was exciting, it was fresh.

Dave-And then the next set was just -kasshew. Deday-It wasn’t exciting by itself.

Dave-Well last night was.

DedayThat’s the thing, that’s the thing. Maybe the first set was exciting intrinsically, too. But it didn’t matter if it was exciting intrinsically because it was new and you really wanted to know what was gonna happen next.

Dave-But the crowd response...

Deday-The other thing, the voices, the back up voices, really work there and in Teenage Lust man they suck...

Dave-They don’t work at all a lot. There’s the change though, right in a nutshell, because they absolutely were not capable of doing that a year ago.

Deday-You don’t think they had the control you mean?

Dave-It would have been incongruous. It would never have occurred to them. That’s what I mean. They weren’t capable of imagining that.

LOOKING AT YOU

DedayIt’s the only avant garde composition on the album.

DaveI never liked that song very much - the old way - and what followed, to me, from that is that this version, on the album, has more to do with the A-2 single, which was the other side of “Boderline.”

Deday-Yeh - and but - it’s different - it’s very close to that version. It has a lot of the same things in it, but like it comes on - it comes on slower, but it comes on stronger.

DaveOh, yeah - much stronger. They have a really good mix on this stuff. For a change. But it’s so bass oriented, and the rest of it’s so treble oriented.

DedayAgain - though the bass is very light - and that’s another thing that contributes to it not sounding funky, you know. That it’s not - that’s the thing aboutthat. Like, you know, that like the Stones, with the big peaks and valleys, and this doesn’t have big peaks and valleys. But it’s not smooth. It’s not placid. That’s like it doesn’t have holes, but it does have little - It’s jagged, and that’s the thing - It’s not rippling, or anything. It’s jagged and that’s the way this is kind of like a radio wave and it’s high energy in that sense. Rather than -whooooom - you know, dropping you know and knocking you up. The whole thing about the mix being high. And the way the whole thing is structured, - man, like with Dennis playing, -instead of playing from the bedrock, playing from the ozone - you know. And the way he plays - the way he plays on the album - you know, real light and fast and crackling, and he’s kind of pulling the band along, - so you don’t have - It’s not funky but its mainstream rock and roll drumming.

Dave-1 don’t think mainstream rock and roll has anything to do with funky, do you?

DedayThat’s certainly a possibility.

DaveLike the Hollies don’t have a funky thing in ’em - and they’re like, mainstream, and so are Paul Revere and the Raiders.

Deday-Right. Right.

Dave-But this is like, again, man, what you said aboutthis is like one or two or three steps higher. I certainly would not - the MC5 to me, no matter what anyone says about them to me, and despite the fact that well, like a lot of things that John Sinclair said in his article, two issues ago, now, I really - the MC5 is still one of the killer groups performing now.

Deday-The thing that I thought when I saw them, not at the Led Zeppelin, but at the Eastown after that was - O.K., all that’s gone, man, and now they’re only just as good a rock and roll band as there is - You know - remove that whole - that whole other

Dave-The magic’s gone.

DedayThe magic’s gone, but, O.K. Well, see -that’s kind of - yeh - that’s kind of the thought I had, - that kind of excitement, the aura and that is what I - Well, I don’t know, because I really think - because I really think that will come back.

Deday: I like it. Dave: Yeah, but...

Cont. Next Page

DaveWell, they gotta stop doing Black to Comm, man, because they can’t put the saxophones in because there ain’t anybody left to play them.

DedayIt fits in here, too - the thought about the consciousness. Like the difference - like, you know - that kind of free form freakout. You know - what made that a good thing, or a bad thing - was the kind of consciousness with which they did it - like, you know - Sun Ra did it - and they know who fucking Sun Ra is. They know what doo-wahdiddy means.

DaveOr, at least Sun Ra’s brand of doo-wahdiddy.

DedayYeh. And once you know that...like knowing who Sun Ra is you know is something. HIGH SCHOOLDeday-Well, meanwhile, musically...

Dave-1 like it.

DedayYeh. Me, too. And, yeh - that’s a perfect example of that there aren’t any holes but it’s -they’re not giving...

DaveThey’re filled well.

Deday-Yeh, and it’s kind of - it’s not - You know -they’re not laying it all out, you know - not just dumping it out. Man, it’s taut - it’s controlled. They could have a lot more notes, and they could have a lot more space filled...

DaveSure. They could put a lot of junk in there. But, like having just that one piano riff in there DedayAnd like generally the way they use the guitars. You don’t pick out two lines, man, or two different - The things they used to do - it got to the point where it was so loud that you couldn’t hear -what with distortion and accoustics, and this and that, you couldn’t really hear the notes. All you got was the interference between the guitars, or the interference between the guitar and itself, and shit -you know - and like the secondary electronic noises, and that’s not there, but it’s the same kind of approach, sometimes. It’s like you don’t get the elemental, but you get the harmonic. Or, not the elemental, whatever it would be, you know. But you do. It’s more like the secondary effect of what you play, than what you play itself, sort of. It’s hard to verbalize.

DaveThe MC5, now, have a lot more, it’s safe to say, to do with music than they did before.

Deday-1 don’t know. You know...

DaveThey had a lot to do with a whole lot of other things. I don’t know how much they had to do with music, in the sense of the newfound rock and roll ptcple’s idea of taking themselves seriously. And they do, very, very much take themselves seriously on this album. Whatever you think of that.

Deday-That’s really hard for me because...

DaveI mean, they obviously take themselves seriously musically, I mean that was the whole reason for the change.

Deday-Didn’t they then too?

DaveYeah, they did, but somehow - see, like this is the kind of song - or like “Call Me Animal” or “Human Being Lawnmower” - this is the kind of song they would be doin’ with right on revolutionary lyrics, but “High School,” man, it’s like trash. And Teenage Lust too. It reminds me of “Be True to Your School” by the Beach Boys, except it’s more like Be True to Your Revolution. DedayYeah, I think they’ve sort of stepped over the line here. It’s kind of blatant, I guess, to use your word. I don’t know, man, not bein’ a high school kid, but I don’t think that this is the fight song of the future - like when I first listened to it 1 thought yeah, man, it I was fifteen years old, right on! But I really don’t think so, really .Like I flashed on revolutionary cheerleaders, and that we’ve progressed to this new stage of sophistication where we’ve totally assimilated the institutions. All that, man, all those forms, totally assimilated. And I don’t know if that’s a new level of sophistication but it can be.

Dave-1 have a hard time taking the MC5 seriously politically. I never used to, but I do now. I think their politics were and are expedient. And you know, thoroughly irrelevant.

DedayWell, you know, I never could relate to politics and I just liked the music. And I still really can’t relate to politics and I really don’t know. DaveIn terms of the MC5?

DedayIn terms of anything. Yeah, well I don’t know but I kind of think that politicians generally don’t make very good musicians.

DaveI don’t know, I haven’t heard Carl Oglesby’s record yet.

DedayI haven’t heard Seize The Time, for example, Elaine Brown or whoever, but I suspect that it’s pretty bad and if you like it you like it because - and so what the MC5 was doin’, sure, rock and roll ain’t the revolution, it’s just rock and roll...

DaveRock and roll is too revolution.

DedayBut I mean they’re songs man, they’re playin’ guitars not guns, they ain’t takin’ care of no business and OK if they are takin’ care of business only in that they’re gettin’ everybody excited and resensified and shit...

DaveBut did they ever believe that?

DedayI have to assume that they did, man. I’m willing to believe that they did. I’m willing to believe that I did. Still do to a certain extent and them too.

DaveI hope they do but I’m afraid it’s expedience, I really am.

DedayOK now, maybe I don’t understand what you’re saying.

DaveThat to put, that to write - because like if I understand the principles of resensification, of that whole trip correctly it doesn’t matter what the lyric is anyway because the medium is the message. Ha.

DedayHa.

DaveSo that the lyric is the expedient part, not the music.

DedayWell, so you fit anything in but it’s kind of silly to be talkin’ about - I mean, what, with that kind of music what are you gonna be singin’ about? DaveDon’t matter.

DedayOh - then, like you might as well just sing in nonsense syllables.

DaveSure man, you just be Leon Thomas DedaySure, but - you know DaveOr Linda Shirrock, man Deday-Well, but, you know DaveOr Patty Waters

DedayBut, but these are - Patty Waters? - you know, these are not those kind of dudes - these are rock and roll dudes

DaveYou ever listen to Patty Waters on acid? Dedav-No, I’m afraid not.

CALL ME ANIMAL

DedayAll I think is wrong with that cut is it’s too short.

DaveAnd the hand clapping.

Deday-1 like the hand clapping.

DaveOh man it’s so jive.

DedayOK, so is call and response, like that but I can really like it.

Dave“Call Me Animal,” yes indeed. This must be the revolutionary side of the album, I’m sure it is. “Teenage Lust” on the other side and this is the American Ruse side, this is the side of Amerika’s poetry is revolution in the streets fucking and doping and smoking rock and roll.

DedayYeah - I really - I think it’s strong and I think it’s got a good beat and it’s mildly avant garde Dave86

DedayIt feels - 83 - it feels somewhat like Looking at You but it never gets, never really gets rolling. Wayne sounds pretty good on it.

DaveIt reminds me - it starts off, you know, that little

DedayPick noise too, pick noise

DaveYeah, well, you know that little - that’s the

way Revolution starts off. Similar, not identical.

It’s a fun tune, y’know

DedayA Fun Tune

DaveIt isn’t offensive, more than can be said for the first three tunes on the other side.

DedayNo, it’s a good album song for the new MC5.

DaveYeah. Yeah. And they’ll re-record it in five years, after they’ve gone back to their old methods of bizzarity.

Deday-Yeah, because - see, now that really could be a killer vehicle because of the stop time and the whole - it’s, it’s the real harsh electronic feel of the whole tune.

DaveYeah, and it was written - they never used to do it much.

Deday-Robin sounds really good on it.

DaveYeah, as a matter of fact Robin sounds about as good as he sounds on the whole album. Except for “Let Me Try.” Given that “Let Me Try” is a freak. The whole first side is a freak. It doesn’t seem to have any cohesiveness, you know, they’re just cuts - and this side has some cohesiveness.

THE AMERICAN RUSE Dave94.

Deday94 easy. I really think that’s the pop song of the future - that’s the revolutionary pop song. DaveY’know just listenin’ to it then man, really really listenin’ to it, introspectively, I love it. I love the lyric to it - well, I mean, how could I help but love the lyric - freaked on Burroughs and it’s the only song in the world with terminal stasis on it and there ain’t no other place it could come from. Ace lyrics man, just ace.

DedayAce lyrics and really, really strong electrifying uptempo, not rushed but hard DaveReally an MC5 song. Fine song - one of the better songs on the album. A good side.

Deday-A good side, a good side.

DaveIt woulda made a good single - it’s too bad that we ain’t ready for it.

DedayExactly.

DaveAnd Sonic Smith is just the perfect name for Fred Smith man, there is no other word.

DedayTrue, true, true. And that last, that last, those last two things - I’m sure he wrote that part. He’s got just that feeling for those, those really tortured intervals.

SHAKIN STREET DaveCynical.

DedayNaaaah. It’s like Wayne stickin’ out his tongue on that “Kick Out the Jams” poster.

Dave-It’s refreshing.

Deday-Fucking’ a! And the thing about that is, the same kind that’s the MC5.

DaveThat is the MC5.

DedayThat is an MC5 song because it’s that peculiar kind of consciousness. Like, it’s got Dylanesqueverse you know?

DaveWhich is surprising.

DedayIt’s a surprise, but it’s not you know...

DaveWell, it all makes sense after you think of it but it’s a surprise cause you never woulda thought of it.

DedayRight. But at the same time, the first thing, you know, “Shakin’ Street, where all the kids meet”, it’s beginning to slide into the same old thing like “High School” and it’s going to be the same kind of failure that “High School” is. But then here’s one of these apochryphal kind of stories, man, stuck in there with a rock and roll consciousness.

DaveIt’s a tale, too. I thought he wrote the song in New Jersey. That was my-flash the first couple of times, Camden, New Jersey.

Deday(laughs) I can believe it.

That’s it and that’s the thing we were saying before, that that’s the MC5, that they’re honkykids, they know that they’re childrea of honkies, man, and that they were, that they were, uhh, punks man, punks in a sense. With that extra something that made them into the MC5 who would listen to Sun Ra and understood about and learned from Dylan and all that shit man.

DavePartial credit for which, at least, must go to John. Cause John has hardly been mentioned on this tape.

DedayOh! How can we have a tape and not mention John?

DaveEspecially if it’s about the MC5. If it was about anything else, John would get mentioned. DedayAnd that’s the thing that has made them... DaveMy favorite band.

DedayCause it’s a combination, it’s a consciousness not found anywhere else. Like, when Rolling Stone takes it apart, when they say, “Oh these aren’t college kids” they say it negatively. But, like, there’s that whole positive thing and when you combine the visceral Lincoln Park, poolshooting, hot rod mentality with that extra little spark and, not intellectual, not the quality of being an intellectual, but like that consciousness man, you get something that you just don’t get anywhere else, man. It’s the only band like it.

DaveAnd it only could have come from Detroit. DedayAnd it only could have come from Detroit; maybe. Well, that’s what we want to think. But like, when you say that, even if it’s not true that indicates what we’re talking about.

DaveWell, it only could’ve come to Detroit for me. Cause I’ve been doin’ that. You know, I went to college for three semesters and dropped out. And that song means a lot to me because it means they can still do it, they still got it.

DedayWell, that kind of consciousness. Even somehow when it meets with the Crawdaddy! intellectual, that kind of consciousness has a certain, has you know, an organic vitality that...not...That of course is an idealized version of what happened with this album but in a sense... DaveAnd Fred Smith has an interesting kind of voice. “HAH”

DedayYeah, that’s another thing that’s kind of nice, same kind of thing with “You Got the Silver.” It’s really nice to find out, hey, this dude’s got a really ace rock and roll voice. I wouldn’t want him to sing a whole album. But it’s really nice spiral...MickTaylor...

DaveIt’s the way people used to throw instrumentals into albums, I think, just to break things up.

DedayThat’* the thing about the Five, another thing that I’ve always liked about the Five is like, when like, even with “Ramblin’ Rose” man and let’s face it...

Dave-1 love “Ramblin’ Rose”...

DedayYeah.That’s another thing...that song just totally confuses me. I really don’t know to relate to it at all. Or to relate to Wayne’s singing or anything.

But like, you know, they’re a complete band, you know. That you know, they bring out another line, and another line. You know, this is the Wayne Kramer line. This is the Fred Smith line. And Rob goes back there and just stands behind the drums and digs it. And it’s a whole thing. It’s like if a horn band had the sense to not use its horns for one or two tunes. That it might be a lot more interesting, it might be a lot better.

DaveThat’s another thing, like I said that that’s really important to me, because that proves that they’ve still got it. And, man, no one that ain’t never lived here will never, ever know how fuckin’ important that band is, man. How fuckin’ important this album is. I don’t know if there’s any way to put that onto paper man. I don’t know if there’s any way to get that out in the air in words. To me, man, this band is more important than any band that ever existed or ever will exist. And it’s just so important man.

Deday-Right on.

DaveIt’s really important and I hope a whole lot of people understand that.

DedayIt’s interesting, like the first time I heard the MC5 I was living in Chicago, you know, I was from Detroit but I was going to school in Chicago, and I wasn’t into any, I don’t know if there was a scene in Chicago but I wasn’t into it, whatever it was. And, like I saw the Five and they were the first local band I ever saw, except for like the Spike Drivers. This is ’66, ’67.1 kind of thought, I picked up on what it was about and I kind of just expected everything to be like that. And that’s really a high standard to set. It’s a killer high standard because it’s so fuckin’ organic it’s so real you know. Of course, it’s so powerful, cause the band was so powerful. More than that, that level of consciousness, to take that as your expectation, so few bands function on that level.

DaveRemember when they used to do “Manic Depression”? I remember going to hear the MC5, and coming home and puttin the fuckin record player on as loud as I could, man, and it just wouldn’t...it just wasn’t there. I guess maybe it nevpr, ever will be. Just to make your teeth ache like they used to.

DedayIt’s conceivable that San Francisco in the early days partook of...I mean, it was different, it was a different synthesis. It was a much more intellectually weighted synthesis, weighted much more toward that side of this as opposed to the other side, but it was probably the same kind of organic...

DaveIt was like intellectual opposed to antiintellectual, the same way matter is opposed to anti-matter.

DedayExcept I think the early San Francisco bands were anti-intellectual in a...

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DavePretty weird way. The same way Dylan was. Where the MC5 are closer to being antiintellectual the way Mick Jagger is.

DedayI’d say the way Woody Guthrie did.

DaveWell, folk music bypassed Detroit. I know, I read it in Rolling Stone. As a matter of fact, a friend of yours wrote it.

DedayA friend of mine?

HUMAN BEING LAWNMOWER

DedayI think we can agree that that’s the best

thing on the album.

DaveOh, that’s avant-garde, and it’s the MC5, man and it’s right on politically...

DedayIt’s right-on politically and it’s...

DavePig on!

DedayIt’s like, it could be longer, but it’s not too short. It’s like it’s like a beautiful synthesis of like the MC5. THE MC5! The approach, the taut, commercial approach to the new album. If the whole album were just like that...

DaveI would have no complaints about that album then. If it were just like that. It’d be the greatest album ever.

DedayWell, see there we go and we better watch but yeah. Yeah, that’s a great song.

DaveThe MC5 are the MC5 still and all.

DedayYeah, that’s like essential.

DaveYeah, and it’s really, it’s necessary.

DedayAnd sufficient. And Wayne’s sound is really good.

DaveWayne sounds beautiful and Robin sounds best on the album.

DedayRobin sounds like Robin used to should’ve sounded. But didn’t always. Most of the time didn’t. But that “millimeter by millimeter”, especially that, you know. And the way the song’s constructed is like, is, you know, it’s theatrical. In the way that the MC5 were always theatrical.

DaveThat was the thing about the change was...See, I relate to politics a lot in terms of theatrics. But I relate to politics much more theatrically than...certain people in the area that I could name.

DedayYou and Abbie Hoffman Dave-1 would like to consider myself and I really wish I could...except I don’t dig his eight months. We’re sittin here on the evening that Abbie Hoffman got the eight months for contempt, man. DedayMeanwhile, Abbie Hoffman got the lightest sentence of them all.

Dave-1 tell ya man it’s all an american ruse.

Deday-1 bet Dellinger got a big one.

DaveOf course, Dave Dellinger got a big one. I’d just like to say that I’d like to dedicate that last song to the Conspiracy Seven. I can’t think of a more fitting group of people who deserve the honor.

BACK IN THE USA

DedayIt’s a good cut, crackling fast and everything - high energy, but it would be more effective as a part of the album if they hadn’t done “Tutti-Frutti” too - you know. It’s obviously tongue in cheek as they say, but they give “TuttiFrutti” the exact same level treatment and so if there’s no point pr obvious irony in that -1 guess , it’s fair to say there isn’t - then the one detracts from the other.

DaveBecause they took themselves just too fuckin’ seriously on the whole thing, you know? Like they set out to be, and were, self-consciously a rock and roll band and were self-consciously musicians about it and maybe my problem is I don’t understand musicians as well as I don’t understand rock and roll. Which isp’t music quite, I don’t think.

DedayIt’s certainly a good way to end the album -it probably would have been a better way to begin the album.

DaveMaybe if you played it backwards?